Working bred, Performance Bred

T

~Tucker&Me~

Active Member
#21
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Messages
4,940
Likes
0
Points
36
#21
Another thing to keep in mind is that some of the traits attributed to 'working' and 'performance' breeders are just bad breeding ethics, NOT a type of breeder problem. Spy is performance bred and settles incredibly well. He's almost always asleep in the house.

If a performance breeder is breeding dogs who can't settle, she is a BAD BREEDER, not a 'performance' breeder.
 
Dekka

Dekka

Just try me..
#22
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
19,779
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
48
Location
Ontario
#22
RD said:
This.

Stockdogs are, IMO, going the same way you describe bird dogs. There are your immensely talented trial dogs who would not do a lick of good on a farm, and there are terrific farm dogs who wouldn't be spectacular in trials. There's a spllit even in the stockdog breeds between performance/trial dogs and just working farm dogs.
Click to expand...
I think this is the same in any sort of working breed. Terriers who win at earth dog competitions aren't often the ones you want to hunt with. And the careful working dog will never do will in competition. Working protection dogs vs schutzhund dogs. Sure there will be over lap but one does not equal the other in any sort of breed that I can think of.

As for what I would get.. for me I agree I don't think breeders should focus solely on one thing. Ie if you working dogs aren't great pets what are you going to do with the ones that don't work well enough. You also need health, and a stable temperament. Same goes for sport breeders, the traits that make your breed awesome are ones you should be testing for (hunting, herding etc)
 
S

SpicyBulldog

New Member
#23
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
16
Likes
0
Points
0
#23
Good post Dekka. I agree, I want a dog that's good in the house, can calm down.

Though in some breeds its viewed as normal by some that the breed doesn't settle so much. Like Malinois, though I've known some which settle fine (show lines), map in the house, lay on the couch with the kids. Known some sport dogs / working lines that were not pacing, neurotic crazies when not working. A lot of are not selecting for off the job pet personality. I can't fault them exactly (though I agree with your post) as dealing with particular traits they don't want to comprise intensity, drive, ect.
 
Aleron

Aleron

New Member
#24
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
2,269
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
NE Ohio
#24
Dekka said:
As for what I would get.. for me I agree I don't think breeders should focus solely on one thing. Ie if you working dogs aren't great pets what are you going to do with the ones that don't work well enough. You also need health, and a stable temperament. Same goes for sport breeders, the traits that make your breed awesome are ones you should be testing for (hunting, herding etc)
Click to expand...

What makes a dog a great pet depends largely on what the pet owner wants though. I have known people who liked all sorts of things in their dogs. The person who returned my oldest Belgian to the breeder for "temperament problems" got another Belgian afterwards. He once was telling me how this dog is just so great because when people come over, she hides under the table the whole time unlike my dog who was just obnoxious and always bothering their guests.
 
Fran101

Fran101

Resident fainting goat
#25
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
12,546
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Boston
#25
~Tucker&Me~ said:
Another thing to keep in mind is that some of the traits attributed to 'working' and 'performance' breeders are just bad breeding ethics, NOT a type of breeder problem.
Click to expand...
Gotta agree with this. Good health and stable temperaments I feel should be #1

Not all pets are cut out to be sports/working dogs, but all working/sports dogs need to be able to be pets.. kind of thing. For most homes/breeds anyway.

I understand wanting to breed for better working/sport traits (faster dogs, more drive etc..) but I don't think that other important things should be sacrificed.. I think THAT is a sign of a bad breeder. Putting ribbons, scores and endurance over basics like health and temperament.
 
Kat09Tails

Kat09Tails

*Now with Snark*
#26
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
3,452
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Upper Left hand corner, USA
#26
Working to me means the dog does something in exchange for it's upkeep first and foremost. The police K9 does a job in exchange for being able to be a police dog, just as the MWD does a job in exchange for his room, medical, and board. A hound that doesn't hunt is of little use to the houndsman, just as the collie with no prey drive is of little use to the sheep herder. The ability to do task needed is more important than the joy of owning the dog.

Performance to me means pet with a side of ribbon/title chasing. If the dog doesn't compete well it's more often than not - not a deal breaker- but it may be part of the selection criteria for the next generation. The task is not more important than the dog in most cases.

To me there is no right/wrong in this. There is nothing wrong with having a pet - I do think people are fooling themselves/others in what they consider a "working dog." Worrying sheep in a round pen on the weekends or even trialing once a week doesn't make a dog a working dog. A therapy dog title doesn't make a dog from working bloodlines.
 
S

SpicyBulldog

New Member
#27
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
16
Likes
0
Points
0
#27
Aleron said:
He once was telling me how this dog is just so great because when people come over, she hides under the table the whole time unlike my dog who was just obnoxious and always bothering their guests.
Click to expand...
Um wow. Thats all I can say.
 
S

SpicyBulldog

New Member
#28
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
16
Likes
0
Points
0
#28
Hmmm Kat that is interesting view too.

Also how many hound breeders find those that don't make the cut a pet home? If a failure isn't going to be a pet its irrelevant that it has a pet temperament. The other pups will be kept given, traded or sold to other hunters from the start.

Seems like it depends then. I'd say that most performance breeders should keep pet temperament in mind. I also think that people need to be able to handle everything else that goes with their pet. The drive, energy level, ect Breeding dogs who can live in the home is one thing but then people expect the dog to act mellow all the time. A lot of working breeds are given up because the owner can't handle them even though they can settle.
 
Dekka

Dekka

Just try me..
#29
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
19,779
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
48
Location
Ontario
#29
Kat09Tails said:
Working to me means the dog does something in exchange for it's upkeep first and foremost. The police K9 does a job in exchange for being able to be a police dog, just as the MWD does a job in exchange for his room, medical, and board. A hound that doesn't hunt is of little use to the houndsman, just as the collie with no prey drive is of little use to the sheep herder. The ability to do task needed is more important than the joy of owning the dog.

Performance to me means pet with a side of ribbon/title chasing. If the dog doesn't compete well it's more often than not - not a deal breaker- but it may be part of the selection criteria for the next generation. The task is not more important than the dog in most cases.

To me there is no right/wrong in this. There is nothing wrong with having a pet - I do think people are fooling themselves/others in what they consider a "working dog." Worrying sheep in a round pen on the weekends or even trialing once a week doesn't make a dog a working dog. A therapy dog title doesn't make a dog from working bloodlines.
Click to expand...
I agree completely. The working dogs I know are actually working dogs. This is why I ended up with Seren, she didn't hunt right off the bat the way the breeder had hoped.
 
M

Mach1girl

New Member
#30
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
877
Likes
0
Points
0
#30
...going by the topic & not reading all posts......DA is NOT a recessive gene, wise breeding can put some forms of DA into a dormant state, but never forever, and not permanently. DA, if a dog possess' this traight, will always exist, it just has to be managed.
 
M

Mach1girl

New Member
#31
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
877
Likes
0
Points
0
#31
Also, Id like to add, there are several types of DA. For instance, my dogs all possess DA. 4 of them however will only show it outside thru a fence but if an animal comes inside the house it disappears. 1 will attack the 42 inch plasma with DA. 3 will kill another animal if it comes in the house. 2 only follow what the others do. All of them look like **** idiots when we take them to show or anywhere else around animals!!!
 
OwnedByBCs

OwnedByBCs

Will Creep For Sheep
#32
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
588
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Colorado
#32
In BCs, there is a difference between a Working BC and a "Sporter" Collie as they are commonly called. Different structure is required for performance sports (agility/flyball mainly) and herding. Sporter Collies are much leaner, taller, more angulated in the front and rear, and generally have a more Sighthound type body.

I personally don't understand it. The traits that make a great working dog also makes for a great performance dog. But, hey, I'm not a big agility person so maybe I'll never know. I will always prefer a dog bred for its original purpose.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Members online

Total: 179 (members: 1, guests: 178)
Top