Bully owners, info please! (especially APBT, SBT, AmStaffy)

Recently, I've been hanging around a few pit bulls or pit mixes and I must say I'm really starting to love them. I'm sort of wondering if my next dog or the one after could possibly be a bully breed of some sort. If I were to get a bully breed, it'll most definitely be a shelter dog because there are just SO MANY out there.

The ones I've met are actually relatively calm but can fetch for a long time. The owners said their dogs are pretty lazy in the house and that might be good if I have to work 40 + hours a week.

So I have a couple of questions, mind you I know virtually nothing about the different types of bully breeds like APBT, Am staffy, etc. I don't think I have much of a preference anyways since it will be a rescue. I'll take whichever comes up and suits me the most temperamentally.

1. How often are there smaller ones around 30-35 lbs? That's probably the size I'm looking for as my next dog.

2. How biddable is your particular dog?

3. I keep hearing they can be DR/DA and it's quite common, is that an exaggeration or is DR that common? I kind of want a dog that would be alright going to the dog park, it's really not necessary but I hope I can find a dog like that.

4. Reliability off leash?

5. Exercise requirements? The least I would do is about 2 hours a day, 1 hr walking, 1 hour dog park, fetch, games, w/e. That's what I have to do with Nia anyways.

6. General health? Are they a healthy breed? I realize there are a few different bully breeds but are they all pretty healthy?

7. Are they prone to SA?

8. Are they more confrontational dogs or like to avoid conflict? I really love dogs that try to avoid conflict as much as possible, Paps are really like that.

9. Would you ever leave your bully breed unsupervised with another dog at home, provided they are about the same size. I'm not going to leave Nia and a 35-40 lb dog unsupervised in the house of course.

10. Anything else you think I should know?

Forgot to add.

11. How vocal are they?

Honestly, questions about pit bulls are a bit hard to answer for me because they are so overbred. It seems like everyone's understanding of a pit bull is scewed. It is very sad to me. I am going to answer your questions according to what I have learned about the REAL APBT, and also according to my knowledge and experience with the SBT and AmStaff.

How often are there smaller ones around 30-35 lbs? That's probably the size I'm looking for as my next dog.
This is the size of a REAL AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER (although males may run as high as 60 and females may run as high as 50, I have always worked with a few breeders with great looking GR CH males that are almost 70 but not quite and it is all muscle). You will find dogs these sizes from a good breeder. If you finalize your decision in the future feel free to PM me and I can point you towards some of these breeders and steer you away from a few, as well. AmStaffs usually run a little bit larger than this. Staffys are 25-35 pounds, never larger from what I have seen and worked with. They are smaller, but have the same tempermant as the APBT if not more tenacity since they have not been extremely overbred. Staffys were the original fighting dog and are just as likely as APBTs to be DA. They are courageous and very smart, same as pitties, and even though they were extremely courageous fighters down in history - they were also called the 'nanny dog' back then because of their love and tolerance for children.

I keep hearing they can be DR/DA and it's quite common, is that an exaggeration or is DR that common? I kind of want a dog that would be alright going to the dog park, it's really not necessary but I hope I can find a dog like that.
Then a pit bull is not for you. Period. Although it does vary from dog to dog and it does depend on bloodlines, it is realistic for the breed. It is not over exaggerated and it is not a chance pit bulls owners should be willing to take. It is very necessary for any pit bull owner to keep this in mind and take precautions. Most pit bulls, and all well bred pit bulls, have a very strong prey drive and really, really want to play with those little fluffy things. I work a pit bull kennel and have let dogs out together that have been friends since they were puppies. Out of nowhere they want to kill eachother. And it is not a joke. If you have never seen a pit bull fight...well it's DIFFERENT. It's not a scuffle or anything like a fight between a couple of Labradors. It is very scary, believe me when I say that. They have VERY strong jaws and they are VERY stubborn. They usually will NOT let go once they have got a good grip. Ever heard of a break stick? It's better to be cautious than to be sorry, it could hurt your dog, you, and the breed very badly. Not to mention most insurance companies won't even cover you if you have a pit bull, and if you were to go against their wishes and have one anyone and an incident were to come up, you'd be in deep sh*t with your insurance company and your bank account. The same applies for Staffys. They're a pocket size pit bull . AmStaffs have been bred a breed away from pit bulls. They were registered by AKC as a different breed than pit bulls, AKC refused to register pit bulls therefore the AmStaff turned into a different breed. Many bloodlines have had the tendancy to be DA bred out of them. The same precautions usually do not need to be taken as seriously with AmStaffs, but this does depend on the bloodline. Look up a pit bull chasing a flirt pole on Youtube, or a pit bull on a spring pole. Pitbull Vertical Jump - YouTube That might give you an idea. They love people, and it is important to remember dog aggression never equates human aggression.

Reliability off leash?
I've found that red nose dogs are much more stubborn and have a mind of their own, but they do have brains, that is why they did so well in the fighting ring way back when. They are very smart dogs with a great capability to learn. They are very VERY eager to please, another reason why they were the ultimate dog in history. They can sometimes be tough to train, but they do love brain stimulation and learning. It really depends on the dog. But once again, a lot like what I said about dog parks. They can be triggered easily to go after another dog. And even if you have a pit bull that is least likely of this and another dog comes at your pit bull, your pit bull WILL GET BLAMED FOR THE FIGHT. Plain and simple, it's just something pit bull owners have to accept, unfortunetly. Same with SBTs. AmStaffs look like pit bulls and will be called a pit bull in the media if anything were to happen.

Exercise requirements? The least I would do is about 2 hours a day, 1 hr walking, 1 hour dog park, fetch, games, w/e. That's what I have to do with Nia anyways.
Walking or jogging is great. Fetch is also great. Investing in a spring pole and a flirt pole would be a great decision.

6. General health? Are they a healthy breed? I realize there are a few different bully breeds but are they all pretty healthy?
Unfortunetly it is very hard to find a pit breeder who health tests their dogs. It is not a common practice in the pit bull breed. My understanding for a long time was that they are all 3 very healthy breeds, but I'm quickly discovering health testing is very uncommon in the breeds, cancer is very common, and reliable breeders are very, very hard to find.

Are they more confrontational dogs or like to avoid conflict? I really love dogs that try to avoid conflict as much as possible, Paps are really like that.
Some are. Usually they are not.

Would you ever leave your bully breed unsupervised with another dog at home, provided they are about the same size. I'm not going to leave Nia and a 35-40 lb dog unsupervised in the house of course.
No. I won't even leave Karma and Kenai together outside unsupervised. Even when they are supervised Karma will go at him sometimes. I would never leave a pit bull with another dog unsupervised or while running to the store or anything else. It is better to be safe than sorry.

Anything else you think I should know?
I personally wouldn't have a well breed pit bulldog with your Pap, honestly. And any pit bull, even a rescue dog tested with Nia before, shouldn't be left unsupervised with her. No responsible pit bull breeder is going to sell you a dog if they know you have a Papillion. None that I have met, anyway. No SBT breeder would either. It would be better to adopt a dog from the shelter and introduce them before bringing the new dog home. The same precautions should be taken, maybe not quite as dramatically but it is so important to understand the breed and to DO YOUR RESEARCH! This is sooo important when it comes to this breed, as I am sure you know with the media and BSL/BSD. It's a horrible thing, what's happening to this breed. I commend you for taking this step and getting some research done. They are a different breed, their strength, tempermant (they are SO sweet and wonderful with kids) and how they are viewed by the media and many people.

How vocal are they?
It depends. Vocal when?

REAL APBTs:




Pit bull in history.



What pit bulls tend to look like now.


AmStaffs



Staffy


Did you know that blue is actually not an APBT color or a rare color?

Thanks for the response!!

If I were ever to get a pitty type dog, it will definitely be a rescue. I'm not really interested in going to a breeder in this case because there are so many homeless bully breeds

Although they sound like fun dogs, I'm really leaning towards no for me. Dog aggressive tendencies really scare me, especially since I know I will have more than one dog. I think it's unfair for the dog if I'm gone for 6-8 hours that they have to be crated, even if a dog walker lets them out in the middle and walks them for an hour. Also all our dogs are exercised off leash for the most part and I don't want any trouble with other dog owners saying my pit bull is trying to hurt their dog or child or something. Someone mentioned on another forum that it may not be wise to have a pit off leash in public parks where other dogs are present or children because of BSL but they seem like awesome dogs!

Oddly enough, here I almost always see a few pits at the dog park whenever I go but I've never spoken much with those owners so I don't know how they feel or control the situation if a fight were to happen.

1. How often are there smaller ones around 30-35 lbs? That's probably the size I'm looking for as my next dog.

American Pit Bull Terriers can be that small as they are medium.

2. How biddable is your particular dog?

Can you elaborate on that question, please?

3. I keep hearing they can be DR/DA and it's quite common, is that an exaggeration or is DR that common? I kind of want a dog that would be alright going to the dog park, it's really not necessary but I hope I can find a dog like that.

NOT an exaggeration at all. APBTs were bred to fight other dogs and SBTs and Amstaffs also can be DA. If you want a dog that goes to the dog park or dog daycare, then these dogs are not for you.

4. Reliability off leash? Depends on the dog but I wouldn't trust a bully breed NOT to jump the fence or get loose if they see a cat or a squirrel they want to chase.

5. Exercise requirements? The least I would do is about 2 hours a day, 1 hr walking, 1 hour dog park, fetch, games, w/e. That's what I have to do with Nia anyways.

These dogs need MORE than 2 hours a day mental and physical exercise.

6. General health? They are generally pretty healthy, but they can have health issues just like any dog. It all depends on genetics but allergies/skin issues are quite common especially in the APBT.
Are they a healthy breed? For the most part yes.

I realize there are a few different bully breeds but are they all pretty healthy? Like any dog, they can have health issues.


7. Are they prone to SA? I would say some are and some aren't but they are so people oriented so some can have SA.

8. Are they more confrontational dogs or like to avoid conflict? If another dog starts a fight they will finish it, especially the APBT. I really love dogs that try to avoid conflict as much as possible, Paps are really like that.

9. Would you ever leave your bully breed unsupervised with another dog at home, provided they are about the same size. NO I'm not going to leave Nia and a 35-40 lb dog unsupervised in the house of course.

10. Anything else you think I should know?

If you really are considering these dogs do your research. You have a small dog and a lot of these dogs have quite a prey drive. They are AMAZING dogs but you must do your research! They also need a high quality food as allergies are so common. Also go to Bad Rap they have awesome info generally on APBTs though. Also if you're interested you can join a pit bull forum I am on and there are tons of stickies and information on ALL the breeds you named especially the APBT.

ETA: PitbullLove gave you some really great info there!

Basically what I thought is right, they're most likely not suitable to me unless I become a single dog owning household.

For the most part for the next 30-40 years I would like more than one dog in the house so pit bulls are probably out.

I have been told though by someone that perhaps a senior one would suit me more, like double digits because they become less DR/DA.

For now you guys have made up my mind to not adopt one in the next few years!

Well, they aren't necessarily a bad choice for you. I have 3 Bully breeds who do just fine together.. this is what they look like every night:



There are plenty of rescue dogs that do just fine with other dogs.. most rescue dogs are "watered down" versions of the APBT, so they don't always have the same DA issues. However, I'm always prepared for the day they decide to hate each other. Hopefully it won't happen!

Onto questions..

1. How often are there smaller ones around 30-35 lbs? That's probably the size I'm looking for as my next dog.

That's the size of a female APBT (a "real" APBT). We get them at the shelter pretty often.

2. How biddable is your particular dog?

Agree with others, elaborate a bit.

3. I keep hearing they can be DR/DA and it's quite common, is that an exaggeration or is DR that common? I kind of want a dog that would be alright going to the dog park, it's really not necessary but I hope I can find a dog like that.

Yes, DA/DR is very common, after all, that's what they were bred for! You can't wear rose colored glasses with these dogs and say "Well mine will NEVER try to go after another dog". It's always a "maybe".

As others have said, dog parks are a HUGE no-no for Bully breeds and no reputable rescue will allow you to adopt if you mention you want to take a dog to one. For me, I think dog parks are terrible places for any breed. Now, if you change your views and want a dog that can socialize with your friends dogs in a controlled play group, to me, that's fine. My dogs are always playing with my friends dogs.

4. Reliability off leash?

Well, that depends on training My dogs are extremely reliable off leash.

5. Exercise requirements? The least I would do is about 2 hours a day, 1 hr walking, 1 hour dog park, fetch, games, w/e. That's what I have to do with Nia anyways.

That sounds just fine to me. My dogs generally sleep ALL day. They'll get up and go if I ask them, but they are some of the laziest dogs I've ever met.

6. General health? Are they a healthy breed? I realize there are a few different bully breeds but are they all pretty healthy?

Generally speaking, yes. A shelter dog may have more health issues, since they more than likely weren't bred for quality. Wilson has never had any major health issues, Piper, being a blue, has sensitive skin (and came to me with Demodex) and a sensitive stomach. Sako has never had any issues but he's only 10 months.. he's also from health tested parents.

7. Are they prone to SA?

I've met a few that have SA but I don't think they're any more prone to it than other breeds. They ARE generally velcro dogs though.. all 3 of mine try to fit in the bathroom with me LOL.

8. Are they more confrontational dogs or like to avoid conflict? I really love dogs that try to avoid conflict as much as possible, Paps are really like that.

Mine avoid conflict, they are NOT confrontational, none of them. I think other dogs (especially small breeds) know that, because when I take them out, small breeds tend to snap at them and my dogs back off like "Whoa dude, WTF is your problem?"
I play with my dogs in a field out front of my house often and my neighbor has these 2 Dachshunds who constantly bark and run the fence.. my dogs could care less and are more interested in their ball than charging the fence to try to get at the dogs.

It really depends on the individual dog though. I've known Bully breeds who are very confrontational.

9. Would you ever leave your bully breed unsupervised with another dog at home, provided they are about the same size. I'm not going to leave Nia and a 35-40 lb dog unsupervised in the house of course.

The only time my dogs are left "alone" is if I run upstairs to do something. Many would say I'm stupid for doing even that. Other than that, they are crated when I leave (except Wilson, he stays downstairs).

10. Anything else you think I should know?

You sound like you *could* be a good owner for the breed, if you change some of your views. You obviously don't mind doing research, which is a good thing! Many people get these dogs then flip out when the dog growls at another dog and come posting on the Pit Bull forum freaking out that their dog has something wrong with it; they obviously haven't done their research.

I think your main thing is that you have to remember that DA/DR is a perfectly normal trait.. my dogs are the exception, not the rule. On the other hand, the majority of Bully breeds I personally know have no issues with other dogs, so it truly just depends on the individual dog.

I think you've already got your answer, but I'll chime in anyway

1. How often are there smaller ones around 30-35 lbs? That's probably the size I'm looking for as my next dog.

I think it depends on where you are. We get a lot of 40-45 pounders in the shelter around here, but not too many smaller. Many bigger.

2. How biddable is your particular dog?

Mushroom is pretty biddable. He's dumb as a stump, but he wants very very much to do what you're asking. Luce is somewhat biddable, but she has a mind of her own and an opinion of her own, and a lot of success in training her has come by making her think that what I wanted her to do was really her idea in the first place

3. I keep hearing they can be DR/DA and it's quite common, is that an exaggeration or is DR that common? I kind of want a dog that would be alright going to the dog park, it's really not necessary but I hope I can find a dog like that.

It varies from dog to dog. There are people out there taking pit bulls to dog parks and who don't have problems, but I can't see betting my dog's life on him never getting into trouble. But yes, dog-dog issues are quite common in bully breeds, and it's not necessarily "wants to eat all dogs all the time" by any means, but in the wrong situation, you can end up with a disaster. They are not the type to back down if challenged, and they find fighting stimulating and exciting and are quick to pile on in the face of conflict.

4. Reliability off leash?

Depends on the dog. Mine are not reliable in the face of any kind of prey-drive-triggering-action, so they are not allowed off-leash except in a training situation unless securely fenced.

5. Exercise requirements? The least I would do is about 2 hours a day, 1 hr walking, 1 hour dog park, fetch, games, w/e. That's what I have to do with Nia anyways.

Depends on the dog. Mushroom has been a lazy bum since I got him at the age of 2. Luce was INSANE when I got her and much harder to live with and exercise than my sport-bred Border Collie. She did mellow with age though.

6. General health? Are they a healthy breed? I realize there are a few different bully breeds but are they all pretty healthy?

Pit bulls have quite a few health issues, unfortunately. Cranial cruciate ligament tears are ridiculously common and expensive to fix. Amstaffs rank 21st in the OFA hip dysplasia stats, and APBTs 25th with 23.6% of dogs screened being dysplastic. (Though bully breeds are often better able to compensate for bad hips than some other breeds because of how muscular they are.) Heart issues are also a concern, along with hypothyroidism. Allergies and other skin issues are also way up there.

7. Are they prone to SA?

I don't think more than any other breed.

8. Are they more confrontational dogs or like to avoid conflict? I really love dogs that try to avoid conflict as much as possible, Paps are really like that.

Again, varies by dog, but I would say yes, as a breed, they are dogs who want to get involved in conflict and are not at all the type to turn the other cheek. Dog squabble = party.

9. Would you ever leave your bully breed unsupervised with another dog at home, provided they are about the same size. I'm not going to leave Nia and a 35-40 lb dog unsupervised in the house of course.

I have actually taken to leaving Luce and Steve alone together. I would never leave Mushroom alone with another dog.

10. Anything else you think I should know?

Renting, homeowners insurance, and Breed specific legislation are definitely things to be aware of and concerned with if you are looking into owning a bully breed. There are potential headaches with all of those things that simply aren't there with many other breeds.

My responses in purple.

**** those are some gorgeous dogs. Who are they if you don't mind me asking? Ped? *drool*

I don't currently own a pit bull but I have fostered one probably 100% pit bull and one mix, and work with them daily, so I'll answer:

The ones I've met are actually relatively calm but can fetch for a long time. The owners said their dogs are pretty lazy in the house and that might be good if I have to work 40 + hours a week.
This seems to be true...although a younger dog or puppy might be more energetic. But even my 1 year old foster had a pretty good off switch. They're not as non-stop as my JRT was as a puppy...many of them seem to be more couch-potato-esque than a lab or golden as long as they get moderate exercise

1. How often are there smaller ones around 30-35 lbs? That's probably the size I'm looking for as my next dog.
A bunch, especially if they're mixed. One of my guys was 55 lbs, but people said "that's a huge dog" because he had a huge head and frame. Then, my smaller girl was also 55 lbs, but rock-solid muscle and had the frame of a medium-sized dog (maybe a little taller and thicker than a wheaten).

2. How biddable is your particular dog?
They're biddable. Edna was super biddable, Tom (who may or may not have had pit bull in him, was probably mostly AmBull and Boxer) was less so, but not difficult to work with. They aren't as biddable as my JRT was...or a herding dog would be, but they honestly seem more or just as biddable as a lab or golden, just smarter

3. I keep hearing they can be DR/DA and it's quite common, is that an exaggeration or is DR that common? I kind of want a dog that would be alright going to the dog park, it's really not necessary but I hope I can find a dog like that.
This is an iffy question. Many APBT people advise never ever ever take your dog to a dog park. Do I go by that? Not at all. But probably about 85% of them aren't good dog park dogs, and even if I was 95% sure my pit bull would do okay at a park...I wouldn't bring them, because of the breed. I wouldn't want to risk adding to the breed's bad name. However, I've seen many many many pit bulls do awesome at dog parks for their whole lives. If you know dog body language pretty well, you can make a good decision about that. Also, rescuing from foster care helps here because many will do fine in shelter evals and become reactive later, also rescuing a dog that's 2+ years will help.

4. Reliability off leash?
they can be reliable....I wouldn't trust a very DA pit bull or one with high prey drive off leash, even with a good recall, but they definitely aren't a breed I'd advise NEVER let off leash.

5. Exercise requirements? The least I would do is about 2 hours a day, 1 hr walking, 1 hour dog park, fetch, games, w/e. That's what I have to do with Nia anyways.
They'd be fine. With my fosters, we went for 2 short (10 minute) walks, one short potty break, and one longer walk (45mins - 1 hr) each day. Then, about 3 times a week, we went to either the park or on a long line for fetch, or swimming, for about an hour. They could have used a little more exercise...I would consider that the minimum, but they would have been great without much more.

6. General health? Are they a healthy breed? I realize there are a few different bully breeds but are they all pretty healthy?
They're healthier than many other breeds...cancer and allergies seem to be the main concern within the breed.

7. Are they prone to SA?
I don't think it's worse than other breeds who bond closely with their owners.

8. Are they more confrontational dogs or like to avoid conflict? I really love dogs that try to avoid conflict as much as possible, Paps are really like that.
Confrontational, mostly. You'll get a few that are bombproof and will walk away from any fight, but the general terrier attitude is "you start it, i'll finish it"

9. Would you ever leave your bully breed unsupervised with another dog at home, provided they are about the same size. I'm not going to leave Nia and a 35-40 lb dog unsupervised in the house of course.
It depends totally on the individual dogs...but I would not have left either of mine alone unsupervised and there were many in day care I wouldn't have left unsupervised, even though they were fine. I think if I knew the dogs for a long time, then I might feel comfortable with it, but it might take years for me to feel comfortable doing so.

10. Anything else you think I should know?
Definitely try to meet a variety of dogs, and if you aren't prepared to deal with potential DA issues, look somewhere else. You can really minimize the chance of having a DA dog by rescuing an older dog, adopting one that's been in foster care with other dogs, etc...but just know what you're getting into. And expect them to love people and attention from people with every ounce of their soul.

They're loyal, and they're hilarious, and they're brave, and they're smart, and they love. But they're intense, and can be a bit obsessive, and they are terriers, which means they were bred to hunt and kill other animals. Now, many of them live peacefully with other dogs and small pets, but that doesn't mean you can forget their history.

I also wanted to add I think it largely depends on the areas where you are. Down south, I hear stories of pit bulls far more intense than the dogs up here. There are some urban dogfighting rings and dogs here with the personalities to do so, but dog parks here are full of pit bulls and we rarely have problems. It is not hard to go into animal control here and find a pit bull that will live happily with other dogs and cats...I don't know how easy it is to find that in other areas of the country.

Teal, yes those are nice looking dogs, but it depends if you are looking at UKC or ADBA type dogs.

Sorry but UKC "APBT's" aren't real APBT's. This is coming from someone who has a dual registered AmStaff that I show in UKC & AKC shows. Generally speaking, the dogs you see at UKC shows nowadays are all AmStaff's (or Pitterstaffs as some call them). The dogs Teal posted are true APBT's.

That just makes me cringe.. and gets me angry all at the same time.

Agreed on both counts!!!

Irresponsible owners not securing/containing their dogs and doing to dog parks are one of the major reasons that BSL exists. Unfortunately because of these irresponsible idiots, the responsible people have to be ten billion times more responsible just to keep their dogs safe from BSL, getting shot just for being what they are, etc.

Sorry, but you obviously do not know what you're talking about if you say all UKC APBTs aren't real APBT's.

I said "generally speaking" not that they all aren't.

Check this out if you don't agree. Do any of those UKC dogs look like any of the ADBA dogs? Nope. And I know that I have yet to see a UKC APBT that resembles an ADBA APBT at any of the UKC shows I've been to. But I'm going to UKC APBT Nationals this year in October, I'll let you know how those dogs look when I get home

Visual comparison of top winning UKC, AKC and ADBA dogs