Cropped/Docked or Natural?

Thanks

I looooooove the cropped look, I feel that Classic is much more expressive than Titan. I'm ok with natural as long as the ears lay right, I'm constantly fixing Titan's when one decides to go flying nun on me. I wouldn't crop a pet of any breed however, it's not worth the risk of surgery for me.

Docking is a necessary thing in my opinion for some breeds. Anyone having to deal with happy tail knows how much of a pain in the butt that is and if the dog is going to end up with a tail amputation either way, I'd much rather have it done at 3 days when it will heal right than at 1.5 years.

Eh, I've had apbt rescues all my life and have had a ton of happy tail dogs. I wouldn't dock to avoid it.

I do however have no issue with docking.

I'm sorry but the whole "dogs with cropped ears/docked tails can't properly communicate" is one of the silliest arguments against cropping/docking. Sako has a WIDE range of motion with his ears and communicates just fine how he's "feeling".. I always say that the people who say they can't obviously haven't watched a dog that's cropped interact with other dogs or people. And docking.. my friends Rottie wags his entire back end when he's happy, I'd say that's quite easily visible to other dogs and people!

I agree.. have a friend dealing with a dog (an APBT mix) with happy tail right now and she's considering docking because she can't get it to heal. I would've much rather had that done when he was a pup vs. now as an adult!

Oh Gosh, that would be frustrating. I could not imagine Emme with a tail. She probably would ruin everything in the house. Her little nub goes a mile a minute.

Yeah she's really upset about it too.. doesn't want to have to put him through a surgery for it but she also doesn't want him to get sick from an infection either! I'm lucky that none of mine have "whip" tails!

I've felt the same way for a long time; Meg has about 3 inches or so of "nubbin" and heaven knows it is every bit as expressive to me as a full tail. Up, down, tucked, wagging, loose...I can see it all.

However, I recently read about a study that was done (how formal, I don't know, and can't access my broken Nook to see the reference) using 'robot' dogs, both with and without tails and monitoring the interactions of other dogs with it. There seemed to be far too much of a difference in reactions for it to be just coincidence. I found it pretty interesting. Perhaps full tails do matter more than I would have thought.

Having said that, I used to house sit for a greyhound/ridgeback who had a tail that was always either covered with scabs or bleeding and spraying the entire room, so I can see where, for some people, it becomes a fairly critical need to dock.

Dobes can indeed be goofy, but I can't say I agree with "making Dobermans look goofy and friendly and adorable" - because truth is, that's not the temperament my dogs (or many other Dobermans) have. Mine are alert, watchful and... well... no word to describe it - but they keep a close eye on people they don't know. They're not softies, so I don't want them to look like softies. Their cropped ears help communicate to people that they are not Golden Retrievers in a dobe suit. They are harsh dogs... so I am glad they look the part.

Yep! :thumbup:

My dobes' ears are very similar to natural prick ears when it comes to range of motion, conveyance of mood, etc. It helps that they have longer crops, so they are able to move them around to give very clear signals.

For as loud as those puppies scream and as hard as they fight, I'd say that yes, they most certainly feel pain. And they don't start screaming until the doctor starts cutting, so it's not just because they're being handled/stimulated.

I know I have, and its nothing personal, but I just cannot get over the ears. I can't explain it well, but I do think dogs with ears and tails are far more beautiful and good looking than those without.

I know I am not the only one who thinks this and comments on your dogs. I think its probably just not being used to it. With cropping being illegal here since 1900 or so, its very hard to get used to seeing. You'd find most people in the UK share my opinion.

Each to their own.

Just curious, but to those of you that are opposed to docking/cropping, are you also opposed to circumcising baby boys? I've always found these answers interesting.

I just wonder why people feel the need to lie and say my dogs are gorgeous, when in reality they think the dog looks hideous.

If I don't like the way a dog looks, I keep my mouth shut and don't say anything. I don't give out mixed signals.

I dont know that I oppose cropping/docking but yes, I am very much against infant circumcision.

I've never really understood the whole cropping/docking/circumcision parallels. Apples to Oranges, I say.

I would choose not to circumcise my son at this point.

I also do not practice a religion that believes in this practice nor do I live in a society that maintains this practice as a means of cleanliness.

I have no issue with alterations of dogs, I do not however choose to alter them myself.

I do enjoy a nice doberman crop verses a natural dobe. I rarely look at crops on bullies and think man that is a much better looking dog now that it is cropped.

I think if I ever got my briard, in my imagination because I could never groom one, I'd like a crop on it. Then again in reality, I don't see myself seeking any breeds that commonly alter so, I can just hold my opinions from the outside looking in.

DING DING DING We have a winner! Well said!

Well, I only mentioned it because some people that are opposed to cropping/docking say they feel that way because it's an unnecessary cosmetic surgery. So is circumcision (although if I ever had a boy, he'd be circumcised). But when I've asked people that are opposed to docking/cropping, many are NOT opposed to circumcising. I find that interesting.

Funny how we use the dog/kid parallels only when it suits us

I'm not opposed to either cropping/docking or circumcision for others if that's what they chose, however with the caveat that people should be educated about it.
For example if you choose to crop, know that it is not without risk - pups do (rarely, but do) die from anesthesia. Research the surgeon, this is total snob talk here, but NOTHING worse than a horrible crop on a beautiful dog or a crop flop... or idiots who tape stitched ears and then have them get infected and rot off... etc. etc. If you're going to do it, do it knowledgeably.

I love this point!

Someone was recently debating me regarding docking of Rottweilers, and one of his major points was that having tails gave rotties a better public image and made them more approachable. To me, that is a ridiculous reason to change a long standing breed standard. I did not chose this breed because of what other people would think of my dog. If people are ignorant enough to think that a dog is "different" just because it's tail was left intact, then those aren't folks I want around my dog anyways! Education is the key to combating breed bias - not changing the standard to make the breed more appealing to Joe Public.

Agreed. Nothing worse than a crappy crop on a dog.. can totally ruin a dogs look IMO. One of Sako's brothers was done by a different vet than the one my breeder uses and his ears just look weird to me, and my breeder agrees (and is not happy about it). He was actually just sold to a pet home, so no big deal really, but it really showed how 2 different vets can do two totally different crop jobs on the same type of dog. I was lucky with Sako, no taping involved!

Also agree. If someone chooses not to approach Sako & I just because he's cropped, well then I could care less about meeting that person!

I hate circumcision (but not the parents that do it - <3 the mommies and daddies on here). Not just because I feel it's unnecessary, but I suppose (if I'm being honest, haha) I think it looks better natural.