Ethical debate anyone?

ACooper

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#1
I was watching a show (Closer rerun I think) and a gang banger was murdered. Nobody seemed to care, and were of the mind "one less to worry about" type thing.

So.......Do you think a murdered gang banger deserves the same time, man power, money, effort to find his killer as say a 10 year old child?

Why or why not?
 

Dekka

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#2
Gut instinct says HECK NO.

But if you are guilty till proven innocent, well that is kind of condeming him posthumously (if he has never been found guilty).

And someone who kills a gangbanger is also a murder. Is it ok for a murder to go free just because of who they kill. That I have to say is a no.
 

ACooper

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#4
My opinion:

In my gut, honest answer.........no, they don't 'deserve' the same effort.

Now, my head knows that life is life and it's all precious. My head also understands that we all make choices.......those choices sometimes put us at more risk, therefore a gang banger put himself more at risk than an 'average citizen' knowingly does.

Sort of along the same lines as a burglar breaking into my home, I feel he's made his choices, if he feels his life is worth so little as to take that risk.........
 

sparks19

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#5
Yeah that's a tough one. I think I have to agree with Dekka.

My heart wants to say NO WAY

But logically they would have to pursue a murderer regardless of the criminal status of the victim.

and then you figure that's TWO scumbags off the streets... :)
 

CaliTerp07

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#6
I don't think the same amount of time needs to be spent because of who they killed, but because they killed, period.

If a guy kills a gangbanger and then runs free, who is to say his next target won't be a drug dealer? And then a high school kid buying drugs? And then a kid?

Maybe that's a stretch...but just the possibility of it happening on any level makes me hope that the police track down anyone who kills anyone else to the best of their ability.
 

ACooper

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#7
and then you figure that's TWO scumbags off the streets... :)
:rofl1: Way to put it so eloquently sparks! hahahaha

And what if the 'killer' of the gang banger isn't a 'scumbag' at all.......but maybe one of his victims that fought back then ran? The possibilities are endless.
 

Dekka

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#8
Being a police officer is risky though. Does that mean people who live in bad neighbourhoods (risky) or do risky jobs (police officer, or even convenience store working in a bad area) are less entitled to due process?
 

Jules

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#9
So.......Do you think a murdered gang banger deserves the same time, man power, money, effort to find his killer as say a 10 year old child?

Why or why not?
Yes, I do. Because a murder is a murder is a murder. :)
 

Xandra

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#10
No, I don't think so.

I mean yes, try and find them, but if a 10 year old is murdered they should put above and beyond effort into finding the killer.

Gangsters killing gangsters is the nature of the game... it's how they roll, and always has been. There are lots of gangsters who have families and aren't a really a threat to anyone but other gangsters. (I mean, yes, there is an element of violence that is further reaching than just gangsters, but I think you get my point)

But someone who goes out and murders a 10 year old is probably a much more ****ed up and dangerous person.

Those are my preliminary thoughts.
 

ACooper

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#11
Being a police officer is risky though. Does that mean people who live in bad neighbourhoods (risky) or do risky jobs (police officer, or even convenience store working in a bad area) are less entitled to due process?
Interesting that you brought up police officers. I have had this debate with Kevin in the past.

Do I feel worse for policemen killed in the line of duty than an average joe? No I do not..........they know what they sign on for. That's not to say I don't feel for them, I do, but they know the risks of the job.

Most people who live in 'bad neighborhoods' don't do so out of choice, so no, I can't lump them into the same category.
 

jess2416

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#13
Yes, I do. Because a murder is a murder is a murder. :)
Agreed

No, I don't think so.

Gangsters killing gangsters is the nature of the game... it's how they roll, and always has been.
IMO thats like saying a prostitute deserves to be raped because of what they do for their "job"

Just because someone has a different lifestyle than what we might think is good and decent and blah blah doesnt mean that they should be treated as any less of a person...
 
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sparks19

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#14
:rofl1: Way to put it so eloquently sparks! hahahaha

And what if the 'killer' of the gang banger isn't a 'scumbag' at all.......but maybe one of his victims that fought back then ran? The possibilities are endless.
well I'm nothing if not eloquent :rofl1:



Oh I was thinking of it from a gangs kill gangs sort of thing.

if it was a victim that fought back I would hope that that would come out in the trial and hopefully things would turn out for the best but I still think there still needs to be the trial to determine what happened.

but that's the logical part talking not the emotional part of me that thinks "they don't deserve the effort"
 

Lilavati

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#15
Sort of like everyone else, my gut reaction is "Of course not!"

My next thought is "murder is murder", and furthermore, how do we know the victim is a gangbanger for sure anyway? Or that the next victim might not be a little girl caught in the cross fire? And besides, the victim had a family too, and they deserve to have their loved one's killer brought to justice, even if their loved one was nothing to brag about himself.

But my next thought after that is that gangbangers generally kill for a reason, and the people they kill are often (though not always) themselves caught up in crime. It might be a rotten drug deal, or a revenge killing, or a fight between gangs . . .but the victim likely played some role in leading up to his death, and the motive of the killer, however inadequate to justify murder, is likely comprehensible.

People who intentionally kill children, however . . . not only do most people not understand their motives, but their victims are pretty much by definition innocent. And they often kill again.

So . . . yeah, in a world of limited resources, more effort should be expended figuring out who killed the kid than who killed the gangbanger. 1) because the child-murderer is probably more dangerous (at least to innocent people minding their own business) and 2) because the victim in that situation likely did nothing to provoke or bring out his own death.
 

Xandra

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#16
Agreed



IMO thats like saying a prostitute deserves to be raped because of what they do for their "job"

Just because someone has a different lifestyle than what we might think is good and decent and blah blah doesnt mean that they should be treated as any less of a person...
I don't believe I said anyone deserved to die.

A rape is done for the same reasons whether it's done to a prostitute or straight laced college student.

Someone killing someone else for some deep personal reason... or for theft or w/e... is different than someone who preys on children.

Are either of those people good people to have in a society? No. But I think it is more vital to lock up the person who (most likely) derived some sort of pleasure from killing a 10 year old.

The nature of the crimes is in most cases pretty different. Say I had a police department that and I had to choose to allocate resources to finding the murderer of a gangbanger who was shot because he stole a bunch of money from someone or the murderer of a 10 year old that was exsanguinated... I would allocate more resources to finding the 10 year old's murderer.
 

GipsyQueen

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#17
Yes, I do think the same time needs to be spent finding the murder. Like Jules said, a murder is a murder is a murder and you never know who he is going to murder next. Also, I believe that even IF he was a gang banger, maybe some people loved him for who he is. Maybe he was a good person aferall. He was someones child too - and even if my child (my child would be taught differently) were a murdered gang banger (I sure hope not :eek: ) I would want his life being treated with the same respect as someone elses child.
 

Xandra

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#18
But my next thought after that is that gangbangers generally kill for a reason, and the people they kill are often (though not always) themselves caught up in crime. It might be a rotten drug deal, or a revenge killing, or a fight between gangs . . .but the victim likely played some role in leading up to his death, and the motive of the killer, however inadequate to justify murder, is likely comprehensible.

People who intentionally kill children, however . . . not only do most people not understand their motives, but their victims are pretty much by definition innocent. And they often kill again.

So . . . yeah, in a world of limited resources, more effort should be expended figuring out who killed the kid than who killed the gangbanger. 1) because the child-murderer is probably more dangerous (at least to innocent people minding their own business) and 2) because the victim in that situation likely did nothing to provoke or bring out his own death.
I agree with this.
 

Izzy's Valkyrie

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#19
Sort of like everyone else, my gut reaction is "Of course not!"

My next thought is "murder is murder", and furthermore, how do we know the victim is a gangbanger for sure anyway? Or that the next victim might not be a little girl caught in the cross fire? And besides, the victim had a family too, and they deserve to have their loved one's killer brought to justice, even if their loved one was nothing to brag about himself.

But my next thought after that is that gangbangers generally kill for a reason, and the people they kill are often (though not always) themselves caught up in crime. It might be a rotten drug deal, or a revenge killing, or a fight between gangs . . .but the victim likely played some role in leading up to his death, and the motive of the killer, however inadequate to justify murder, is likely comprehensible.

People who intentionally kill children, however . . . not only do most people not understand their motives, but their victims are pretty much by definition innocent. And they often kill again.

So . . . yeah, in a world of limited resources, more effort should be expended figuring out who killed the kid than who killed the gangbanger. 1) because the child-murderer is probably more dangerous (at least to innocent people minding their own business) and 2) because the victim in that situation likely did nothing to provoke or bring out his own death.
Basically this. Yes you should search for the killer because he killed but I don't necessarily think the gang banger deserves the same kind of treatment as a child or police officer's murder case.

Sure people all live their lives differently but the connotation of the word gang banger is one who is part of a criminal group and taking part in the crimes perpetrated (Not just someone in a gang to keep from getting killed) who is therefore doing harm to other citizens in society. Since society isn't losing a whole lot by losing a criminal it's hard to justify spending the same resources to find the killer. But yes, all murderers need to be brought to court, if for no other reason than to show that murder will not be tolerated just because your victim in a bad guy.
 

ACooper

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#20
....snip.........So . . . yeah, in a world of limited resources, more effort should be expended figuring out who killed the kid than who killed the gangbanger. 1) because the child-murderer is probably more dangerous (at least to innocent people minding their own business) and 2) because the victim in that situation likely did nothing to provoke or bring out his own death.
Very good points.

And also, if it was gang on gang action.......most likely the gang of the victim already has some idea of who and they will 'take care' of the 'murderer' at least if what we see on the movies and news has it right.
 

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