Daddy the pitbull passes the torch
- Thread starter Fran101
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And I've had 5 wonderful APBTs that made excellent catchdogs in their day. These dogs were able to work side-by-side with another catchdog and they were not bothered in the least by the pack of baydogs. Did some excite fights break out amongst all the dogs every know and then? Sure. But for the most part, it was quite a site to behold to see all those dogs working together.
With that said, those 5 dogs came out of 52 APBTs that we've owned, bred, and/or raised over the past 12 years. Those dogs are NOT the norm. And yet, I didn't love them any more nor did I love the others any less. In fact, I feel that if I want to strictly focus on catchdogs, I'd rather go with another breed that is more suited for the job across the field that try and change hundreds of years of selective breeding all to suit my whims.
And then, no one knows what happens when you truly try to eliminate such a trait. What I have seen firsthand is that HA and crappy, subpar temperaments are on the rise in dogs that were bred to not be DA. I've seen many, many more ASTs with sketchy, skittish temperaments and AmBullies that were downright nasty than I have true APBTs (not counting generic "pit bulls" in that mix). IMO this is what happens when you throw a breed standard out the window. Of course, DA isn't a breed standard, but it does come along with the breed.
With that said, those 5 dogs came out of 52 APBTs that we've owned, bred, and/or raised over the past 12 years. Those dogs are NOT the norm. And yet, I didn't love them any more nor did I love the others any less. In fact, I feel that if I want to strictly focus on catchdogs, I'd rather go with another breed that is more suited for the job across the field that try and change hundreds of years of selective breeding all to suit my whims.
And then, no one knows what happens when you truly try to eliminate such a trait. What I have seen firsthand is that HA and crappy, subpar temperaments are on the rise in dogs that were bred to not be DA. I've seen many, many more ASTs with sketchy, skittish temperaments and AmBullies that were downright nasty than I have true APBTs (not counting generic "pit bulls" in that mix). IMO this is what happens when you throw a breed standard out the window. Of course, DA isn't a breed standard, but it does come along with the breed.
DA has absolutely nothing to do with B.S.L. In fact, dogfighting itself has very little to do with B.S.L. It's the irresponsible owners who refuse to or cannot seem to find a way to contain their dogs and let them roam loose and cause havoc that are responsible for B.S.L. It's those dogs that should be dead and buried yet are given some sob story for why they have the temperament of a starving crocodile and allowed to harm someone as to why we have B.S.L.
We'll never beat B.S.L. until the blame is placed where the blame is due and we take the steps needed to fix it. It needs to start with culling dogs and eliminating certain owners.
We'll never beat B.S.L. until the blame is placed where the blame is due and we take the steps needed to fix it. It needs to start with culling dogs and eliminating certain owners.
hehehehehe
Amstaff is just trying to get their post number up... (teasing!) :lol-sign:
I think every single post on this forum should start with this as a little reminder:
edited by mod. Image removed as it is offensive to many. Thanks.
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don't have internet at home.. so just getting back to this now.
Any one who thinks its easy to breed out an innate trait in a breed needs to do some research into genetics!
And just cause a dog lies around with other dogs doesn't mean its not DA. Many dogs are selectively DA. I would say Dekka is DR but some would say she is DA. How ever you want to look at it she only reacts to strange dogs, or dogs who challenge her.
JRTs haven't really been bred for DR/DA. But its very prevalent in many lines. I think its linked to drive and hunting style. A JRT who backed down to confrontation when working wasn't a good worker and thus was never bred. Any non watered down terrier breed will have some innate reactivity, its a matter of the nature of their work.
ALSO that special olympic poster is not only offensive but its wrong! (and shows a limited view in two ways)
NOT all competitors are mentally handicapped. Many are physically handicapped. (some are both).
Debating on the internet is no different than doing it in real life, except its written down and easily available for people to find. Thus in my experience it makes people MORE accountable for their actions/opinions as long as they are using an open identity.
Any one who thinks its easy to breed out an innate trait in a breed needs to do some research into genetics!
And just cause a dog lies around with other dogs doesn't mean its not DA. Many dogs are selectively DA. I would say Dekka is DR but some would say she is DA. How ever you want to look at it she only reacts to strange dogs, or dogs who challenge her.
JRTs haven't really been bred for DR/DA. But its very prevalent in many lines. I think its linked to drive and hunting style. A JRT who backed down to confrontation when working wasn't a good worker and thus was never bred. Any non watered down terrier breed will have some innate reactivity, its a matter of the nature of their work.
ALSO that special olympic poster is not only offensive but its wrong! (and shows a limited view in two ways)
NOT all competitors are mentally handicapped. Many are physically handicapped. (some are both).
Debating on the internet is no different than doing it in real life, except its written down and easily available for people to find. Thus in my experience it makes people MORE accountable for their actions/opinions as long as they are using an open identity.
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That is not true....we had a case in a suburb of Milwaukee (West Allis) were a friend of a city official was walking her dog and it was attacked by a Pit Bull who jumped off the porch of a guy who was washing his car outside. No human was bit but the dog that was attacked had to be PTS.
Now you and I know that it was the fault of the idiot human who had his dog unrestrained outside and knew it was DA. However the lady who lost her dog raised holy h@ll and pushed for BSL on Pitties and came very close to getting it passed. The mayor vetoed it otherwise it would have went through.
So humans don't have to be the victims....
On breeding out DA...couple of things.
Actually there are still lots of Pit Bull "Fanciers" who continue to breed for it. Dogfighting is a live and well I am sorry to say.
I never said getting rid of DA would be easy. I do think that if after generations and generations if no one bred for it, it would fade out.
A big part of this argument that we can never get resolved between the two sides is this; some of us believe that DA is part of what makes a Pit Bull a Pit Bull, others of us think it is just one of the many traits that Pit Bulls have. We can argue round and round about that one. :fighting0040:
Now you and I know that it was the fault of the idiot human who had his dog unrestrained outside and knew it was DA. However the lady who lost her dog raised holy h@ll and pushed for BSL on Pitties and came very close to getting it passed. The mayor vetoed it otherwise it would have went through.
So humans don't have to be the victims....
On breeding out DA...couple of things.
Actually there are still lots of Pit Bull "Fanciers" who continue to breed for it. Dogfighting is a live and well I am sorry to say.
I never said getting rid of DA would be easy. I do think that if after generations and generations if no one bred for it, it would fade out.
A big part of this argument that we can never get resolved between the two sides is this; some of us believe that DA is part of what makes a Pit Bull a Pit Bull, others of us think it is just one of the many traits that Pit Bulls have. We can argue round and round about that one. :fighting0040:
the reason they can do it up to a point is because they are very prey driven, and that can get you a good way along in a protection sport especially schutzhund where very little defense is put on a dog and the focus is on the gear and not on the man. Where they wash out is in the sports where defense and the desire to fight the man are brought out.
I don't know about you, but any club I ever trained at, there was never more than 1 dog on the field at a time, or if there was, all dogs were leashed and under control of the handlers, and not real close to each other. DA wasn't ever a factor. Gunnar can be DA, when he was on the field he wasn't worried about a dog that was outside the fence barking, he was focused on his job. In a trial during the OB part, yes, the dog has to be on the field with others, and if you had a super DA dog then you probably wouldn't succeed.
I don't know about you, but any club I ever trained at, there was never more than 1 dog on the field at a time, or if there was, all dogs were leashed and under control of the handlers, and not real close to each other. DA wasn't ever a factor. Gunnar can be DA, when he was on the field he wasn't worried about a dog that was outside the fence barking, he was focused on his job. In a trial during the OB part, yes, the dog has to be on the field with others, and if you had a super DA dog then you probably wouldn't succeed.
I had a DA dog, well still do, but we got over that years ago. What a PITA. I was never too worried about her because she was so focused on me, especially in "working" situations.
Other peoples DA dogs worry me more. We were at a trial about 3 weeks ago and on a down with recall, when he recalled his dog, it went straight for the dog on the long down that he had been eyeing up thru his entire OB routine up to that point. Luckily he responded before he got there with additional commands.
DA is not limited to pit bulls however, not by a long shot.
Other peoples DA dogs worry me more. We were at a trial about 3 weeks ago and on a down with recall, when he recalled his dog, it went straight for the dog on the long down that he had been eyeing up thru his entire OB routine up to that point. Luckily he responded before he got there with additional commands.
DA is not limited to pit bulls however, not by a long shot.
What does this have to do with DA....really? This has a lot more to do with some ignorant and/or irresponsible owner refusing to properly contain/restrain his dog.
And since when should DA result in a human getting attacked? Sure, many uneducated and panicked people get their thumbs/fingers/hands bitten when they try to break up a dog fight, but no DA dog with a stable temperament is going to turn and completely redirect onto a human. So let's please don't even offer that "what if" into the equation....we already have the people who outright don't like the dogs to bring that to the table. We don't need the owners of these dogs to reinforce that myth.
And dogs are dogs. Dogs fight. Cats fight. Horses fight. People need to accept this little part of reality and stop believing their precious little furbabies wouldn't harm a hair on the hide of another creature. Either own a real dog or get a stuffed one. But don't expect your real one to act like the stuffed one.
And since when should DA result in a human getting attacked? Sure, many uneducated and panicked people get their thumbs/fingers/hands bitten when they try to break up a dog fight, but no DA dog with a stable temperament is going to turn and completely redirect onto a human. So let's please don't even offer that "what if" into the equation....we already have the people who outright don't like the dogs to bring that to the table. We don't need the owners of these dogs to reinforce that myth.
And dogs are dogs. Dogs fight. Cats fight. Horses fight. People need to accept this little part of reality and stop believing their precious little furbabies wouldn't harm a hair on the hide of another creature. Either own a real dog or get a stuffed one. But don't expect your real one to act like the stuffed one.