AC's Comment from DC's Beach Pics Thread -- Moved

From:
Body Condition Score Chart

Emaciated

Emaciated dog

Ribs and lumbar vertebrae obvious, pelvic bones and all other bony structures obvious and prominent. Tail base prominent and bony. Accentuated concave abdominal tuck Accentuated, severe hourglass shape to waist. No discernable body fat. Obvious loss of muscle mass.


Optimal

Optimal weight dog

Ribs, lumbar vertebrae, pelvic bones and other bony structures easily palpable with slight fat cover. Tail base smooth with thin, soft tissue cover. Concave abdominal tuck. Smooth hourglass shape to waist.

ie:




From:
K9 Station Dog Training & AuxArcs Australian Shepherds

Emaciated. This dog looks to be a lightly-built breed, possibly a purebred Greyhound or sighthound mix. Even though she would seem "skinny" at a fit weight, it is apparent she is extremely underweight. She has had a recent litter of pups, and this means that her body's resources have been depleted in ways other than just not having enough to eat.

Original thread: http://www.chazhound.com/forums/t106996-5/#post1485901

yeah the dog is grossly underweight.

yoshi didn't even get that bad when she bloated and she had limited food intake during the days recovery and first couple days back as she was eased back into eating normally with a better/easier on the stomach diet. it looks even worse then when i first got yoshi *which was worse then when she bloated*

she says he is doing better though. in a week or two she could post up pics of him looking better.

Scirocco, IMO does seem grossly underweight right now. But, DC is telling us that he is putting the weight back on with the change in food, so I'm not worrying about it personally. I'm sure he'll be back to normal soon, and if he isn't than DC will see a vet regarding it.

I would love to see updated pics when he's at a good weight again, for sure!

And there will be he has gained some back but its not really noticible unless you KNOW him. Im not saying he isnt underweight he is but he is dam sure not neglected, he was fed a crap food for 1.5 to 2 weeks and was already JUST at a perfect weight we were working on making him 5 pounds under (he has arthritis bad and we have a nice sized straight stair case) but at that time i had to buy gravy train because thats all i could afford. And once i had the money to buy something else I did.

ETA: my response that was on the other thread.
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um again seeing as the dog wont go over a certain weight no matter what or a certain look (i can feed him 5 cups a day at 75 pounds and he will stay 75 pounds) and has a skinnier look on him and we have been praised on how he looked (at 75 lbs) then yea im gonna say it again, you need to either read or back off. Youve already proven your class to everyone.
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I feel your pain. If I was to spray my borzoi down with a hose and take pics, people would probably freak out at that too. The vet wants him to put on 10 lbs minimum, but says it isn't dire or anything. He feels super skinny though, and that's with being up to date on worming, getting raw, table scraps, high quality kibble, fish oil supp. and satin balls. Sheesh, I even make his satin balls with organic wheat germ and organic black strap molasses. He just doesn't put on the weight.

If you ever find a cure tell me. LOL

and since its all been changed to this thread (thanks renee) I also want to bring her latest creation over here so no one misses it.


Today, 01:01 AM
Angel Chicken
Wash this memory clean! Join Date: May 2006
Location: Claremont, NC
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Dog Owner Fail
Dog Owner Fail

lol, several borzoi breeders have told me that the key to bulking them up is lots of carbs. Some do it by mixing good kibble with cheap high carb kibble. One actually cooks pasta for their dogs with the cheap parmesan kraft cheese on top, which wouldn't be too expensive. I'm debating whether to go that far or not. :rofl1: As long as he's eating enough calories, his coat is good, and he has muscles I'm happy.

Thats how scirocco is the pictures of him arent him at a normal weight I have stated that, he was fed Gravy train for 1.5 to 2 weeks and lost 20ish pounds.

Yeah, poor dude. I hope he pulls back out of it fast. Personally, I'd be more worried about dehydration than malnutrition. If he pooped out more than went in, you know some of that has got to be moisture. I've seen very healthy looking animals get positively skeletal in a matter of days just from dehydration.

Yea he got some pedialyte during the time then as well. to prevent that.

Both dogs look thin - obviously Scirocco is thinnest of the two.

For starters, that is what shitty dog food does. BUT I would be concerned over the rate of weight loss - and even if he has gained 10 pounds of it back, I can't imagine him being 10 pounds thinner than in this picture. And I think he might need more than 10 more pounds on him, but I don't know the dog and how big he actually is, so I can't really say. But to lose 20 pounds in 2 weeks, and then to gain 10 pounds in a week, is beyond unhealthy. Weight needs to be gained slowly, or it will all be fat. I'm hoping that you're just making a really bad estimate of how fast he lost and gained weight, because those numbers don't make sense.

On the health side - I know you swear up and down there's nothing wrong with him. But you may want to ask your vet next time you go in about EPI. A friend of mine has a GSD that was 94 pounds, and over a month lost 19 pounds. THAT was a concerning weight loss, which is not even close to a 75 pound dog dropping 20 pounds. EPI is a condition where the dog cannot absorb nutrients from the food - so it literally is going right through them, and they do starve because although they are eating, and often eating well, they get nothing out of it. Some dogs have that effect with every food, some have it with certain foods. It's controlled by adding digestive enzymes to their food. I dog really shouldn't be losing weight that fast, even if they're not eating anything at all. If he were mine, I would be concerned about that weight loss, even if it was because of crappy food. Crappy food still has calories.

I'm not saying you don't feed your dogs. I'm not saying you're a bad owner because your dogs are think after being on bad food. Yeah, I could say if you can't afford to feed them good food then you shouldn't have them, but really, I think that's a little extreme. My parents feed crappy food, and they dogs are definitely happy and well cared for (though a little overweight, both of them >.<). To me, just because you have to feed something cheap for a little while doesn't make you an unfit dog owner What I'm trying to get across is that even though you don't think your dog could possibly be sick, it's something you need to seriously consider. EPI is rare, and honestly a lot of vets miss it until it gets really bad. So it's something you might want to at least mention the next time you go in. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt as it stands right now, even though some things you have said just don't add up. I, too, would like to see pictures in a week or two for comparison. And maybe an old picture from before he lost the weight?

I do want to add that dogs should all have SOME fat just like people should all have some fat, but they shouldn't be overweight, either. My dog is at his ideal weight of 57 pounds. He has some fat, but not too much. He's a boxer, so he's a thin-framed dog too (not to the extreme that greyhounds are). Yes, greyhounds in racing condition have minmal fat, but they do have SOME. A dog without an ounce of fat is not a dog in good condition. That being said, some dogs CAN'T gain weight. There's ca Vizsla where I work that has a horrible time gaining weight. In the past 2 years she's put on maybe 10 pounds, and still needs another 5-8 more before she would be in good condition. She's been worked up numerous times, but we've never found anything really wrong with her.

I meant extra fat obviously he has some. And its only been with this food and Im doing a general geuss since I havent weighted him (dont know any vets here) but he is perfectly fine and actually the first time we did check for EPI i know all about it and he tested negative. He just can NOT handle that kind of a food and someone wants to take my dogs for not being able to afford 50 dollars for a 30 pound bag then go ahead. Because now that he is on raw he is gaining weight his poops are smaller. I already looked for a past picture and all the ones I have are him laying down and you cant compare (hes old and lazy) And he needs ALOT of calories to keep his weight stable and he is NEVER kept over 75 which is ideal for HIM. Ask his breeder She has seen him since his retirement as well and LOVES the condition he is normally in.

No, he doesn't.

In a case where he is fed a GOOD HIgh metabolism food YES he does right now yes i know he is underweight and not in good shape HENCE the WORK i put into helping him.

No one argued that, what i argued was him being neglected

AND anyone that wants to argue that 76 pounds isnt good for him read his race pedigree, one pound down because hes not needing muscle like he did. I say thats DAM good for a dog off the track for 5 years now.

UNder his name it says RACE WEIGHT 75 POUNDS
Pedigree of Scirocco

i guess i'm just absolutely at a loss as to why anyone would stand by and watch a dog decompensate to a point that is supposedly even worse than this. yes yes, you were feeding him crappy dog food that his body couldn't handle. and you continued to do so til he was so emaciated that he looks like a cruelty case.

i just... do not understand.

steve is very skinny under his fur. skinnier than i'd like but he just doesn't gain weight. but if he started dropping heaps of weight because of a food change, i'd d@mn well do something about it before he got to the point of walking skeleton! ribby is one thing. hip bones protruding is something else.

One he didnt look much different its just tiny things and two because i couldnt do anything else, i tried getting him food from else where but I couldnt, I had to wait and knew that as soon as I got the money and fed him what he needed.

Walker looks emaciated as well. Did the Gravy Train affect him just as badly as Scirocco?

^^^^^This.