Natural is better?

Maybe I will not get anything stirred up, but I need to talk about something that is on my mind. ****I in no way advocate feeding beneful, pedigree, etc***

When if comes to dog food, how is this necessarily true? I feed a pretty good food with no corn, wheat, soy, bi-products etc. And the reason why I do that is because... basically people online say its best. I have been to a website that picks out the bad ingredients in dog food and tells you what it really is. But I am not understanding why its so bad.

For example

Didnt dogs develop on our left overs. Our ansisters fed the early dogs basically things that they wouldnt eat. And they developed to live off of that for thousands of years. And now, today we feed things like free range bison and blue berries! I just wonder what is actually more "natural" for a dog to be eating.

Also, I know that vets endorse things like like Science Diet, mainly because they sell it and it helps them make money. BUT science diets have vets who formulate the dog food. Does Wellness, or Innova? I cannot help but wonder if this natural dog food thing is a crazy or not. And what really is better.... Purina Pro Plan, or Taste of the Wild!?


sorry if this is long winded and confusing. Its been on my mind, and I just wanted to get it out there.

What do you think?

When I think back to what my folks fed their Irish Setter back in the '40s, I sometimes wonder too ! He lived to be 17 .

I don't know the answer. I've thought about it, too. I did not think dogs were strictly carnivores, so I have not been sure why grains are a problem. Allergies? I understand, from reading, that meat and vegetables are better, but I don't know why.

I would love to have some knowledgeable person break it down and tell me HOW dogfoodanalysis.com knows what they know, what is the scientific evidence to it??

I think people just are like "oh no, this food is only two stars I better not feed it!" and never actually step back to say "hey... who are they to rate it? What are their qualifications"

I dont think anyone should feed Innova, TOTW, or anything else because someone on the internet told them to.

People should do their own independent research on what goes into different dog foods and make their own choices.

*I*dont want to feed my dog diseased animals, corn, sawdust, non human grade ingredients, and the like.... if someone else thinks its fine, so be it... however, they should make an educated decision after reading scientific research.

I do not know the answer, and I in no way advocate feeding the (quote on quote) "low quality crap foods", I think it is somebody's personal opinion.
However, if they were really that much worse, wouldn't dogs who are fed it live up to 10 at the most, and dogs fed (quote on quote) "high quality foods" live to be much older, and be much healthier?

I don't know... I feed one of the former of the choices, and Rosey is almost 11 (possibly 12) and is as healthy as a puppy. Whereas I know people who feed the latter, and they're dogs have huge medical issues and such.

I don't know, the food to feed is personal opinion, and nobody should be bashed for feeding a certain food. IMHO

One thing Jess though... Ruckus has huge medical problems. Skin allergies, excessive shedding, anxiety dissorder, and a very sensitive stomach. And from day one he was on Nutro, then I put him on Diamond Naturals. He is usually on taste of the wild. What I am saying is that his problems are not due to feeding crap food. So I am not so sure that a dog feed crap food and having issues have to do with each other. It would make since to me though.

as a dog groomer, here in the south... most dogs I see are fed Alpo canned food, or beneful. I admit, I see loads of skin problems, and fat dogs that always stink. But I really cant say its due to the dog food. Who knows! We have loads of Amish puppy mills that clients get their dogs from, so it may be bad breeding more than anything.

And I have having issues understanding why almost EVERYONE I know that shows dogs uses and recommends Pro Plan! These dogs are very valuable and have to be in the best condition for shows of course.

I'm not sure I follow the argument. If, in the past, we fed our dogs table scraps and remnants of what we ate, what does that have to do with what's in a bag of Eukanuba or Purina?

Also, just because someone is a vet, that doesn't mean they know about nutrition. Just because someone is a doctor, that doesn't mean they know about nutrition either. That's why there are nutritionists. It's a specific study.

And yes - Wellness was bought by an animal nutritionist and he is the one responsible for making it the company it is today. Their philosophy is to feed exactly what you said dogs used to be fed: human grade ingredients. They just happen to be skipping the step of giving it to US to cook and eat first, then give our leftovers to the dogs.
Innova (Natura) also has vets and animal nutritionists on board, FWIW.

In the past, what we fed our dogs as scraps WAS free-range cow/bison/rabbit, whatever. It wasn't the diseased and rotting over-processed scraps left from genetically altered and hormone injected feedlot cattle.

You have to remember, the standards for both human and pet food consumption have been lowered over the past few decades and such to keep consumer prices low and profitability high. Think of what grade of meat you get from Taco Bueno or Burger King these days on the dollar menus. Then realize that what goes into Pedigree, Alpo, Purina, etc is a couple of grades BELOW that. It's just flat out disgusting.

I find it beyond amusing that we chase dogs out of garbage cans and such, but happily feed them Beneful because a slick TV ad tells us it's "good". How is that different from taking someone's advice over the internet when they suggest looking into better foods?

Well, if you are a breeder purina offers free food if you send in so many UPCs from the bags of dog food you are buying, which when you have a lot of dogs adds up over time.

Also, all the folks I personally know that feed Purina and are heavy into showing also feed at least 50% canned and home cooked. That's not including the salmon oil supplements, the kelp meal, the special coat growth formulas, etc. that they feed that makes up for all the missing nutrients in the base kibble. Most serious and successful dog show folks have their own little secret formulas of supplements and home cooking they give their dogs.

Both Charlie and Strider's breeders are pretty into showing. Charlie's breeder has goldens, and manages to actually finish their AKC CH's, which is a testament to her dog's conditioning and confo as a CH on a golden is very hard to get. Both of them feed Kirkland as their base kibble.

Charlie's breeder told me that she tried her dogs on Purina and a few other "budget" kibbles and her dogs started stinking and their overall condition went downhill. Then she switched to some of the really premium stuff, TOTW, Innova, etc. and they were amazing, but she was going broke. So then she tried Kirkland, and her dogs still looked great. She said that basically their coats were slightly less shiny so she supplements to make up for that.

Strider's breeder uses it as a base kibble with raw meat, goat's milk, and boiled rice. She's transitioning them to total raw using farm animals they raise themselves.

My own dogs follow that same routine. Kirkland base kibble with lots of scraps and home cooking and raw. They are doing great, looking great and are both very healthy. In part from good breeding and in part from diet.

It's suspicious to me that Strider, who can eat leftover calabacitas with green and red chiles and cheese without any gas or runny poo, and can sit down and eat a 4 lb pork shoulder raw in one sitting can not tolerate purina dog food. It just doesn't work for him (or our carpet). It even made him vomit.

Every dog is different though, the important thing is to find a food that your dog does well on.

ETA: Another reason someone told me that they use Pro Plan is because when they are campaigning their dogs and traveling across the country with them constantly, Pro Plan is always easy to obtain so they don't have to worry about lugging 50 lb. food bags everywhere. I also know some folks who campaign their dogs and they do lug big bags of the more premium stuff with them because they feel it is important.

To me, it's not so much what the internet and TV commercials say. Yes, I'm going to do research on what's good and what's bad, but I also take a lot of opinions from users of the foods... including myself.

Fozzy, my last dog, was on IAMS/Eukanuba his entire life, even with some Kibbles n' Bits thrown in here and there (we as a family did not know any better, could you tell?). He lived to be 13 before dying of cancer, which is not a very young age for a BC mix. But, his teeth were yellow and rotting, he had a lot of gas and large poops, and fluctuated in weight constantly, being a bit overweight at time of death. He also had quite a dull coat most of his life.

Just because people did it for years, doesn't mean that the dog evolved to nutritionally benefit from junk food. We've been eating junk for centuries and we as a species are simply getting fatter and finding new miracle weight-loss cures. We're hardly "evolving". Dogs still do best on what they originally ate, before us, and what their ancestors ate: Meats.

We know better now than we did before, and are feeding as such. Most who feed high-quality kibbles or BARF diets notice marked improvements in their dogs coats, teeth, eliminations, activity levels and overall health. Something is going right.

well said. all our last dogs were feed Ol'roy, kibbles and bits and alpo (we would switch to what ever was cheap and on sale) They lived to 13 (lassie) 14 (CJ) and 14(sweetie). Sure they also lived long enough lives. but all their teeth were SO rotten, dull terrible coats, smelt terrible, runny eyes constantly, large poops, ate a ton, were not very enegetic, not to mention trying to get weight of them hardly worked on the junk. but sure they lived long lives. were they super happy and confortable? I doubt it, rotten teeth would be painful, upset tummies hurt, constant watering eyes are irratating, coats not blowing properly makes cooling and heating yourself difficult.

what I have noticed with Blaze is a 180. white teeth still at age 6 (while the past 3 dogs teeth were all already rotten or on their way to it) lovley coat, hardly sheds, no dog odour, hardly ever farts (last dogs, farted lots, dull coats and smelt bad) eats a small amount (past dogs ate tons) lots of energy (past dogs were energetic, but not as much as Blaze) good weight, easy to keep and easy to loose (past dogs struggled with lossing weight and 1 dog struggled to gain weight, looked like we starved her, she was literally skin and bones) doesnt have watery, tear stained face (past dogs did)

thanks for everyones input!

the other thing to keep in mind...

the only vegatables and grains "natural" for any canine to eat would be partially predigested in the stomach of whatever they caught...

since grinding is not the same as predigesting, having those grains and such in the kibble...the body is not properly developed to break down those things in such state...

After doing much research we have put all our dogs onto a a raw diet.

Firstly, dogs are carnivores, they do not need to eat grains. The closest relative of the domestic dog is the grey wolf and they DO NOT eat the stomach contents of their prey. They will shake out the contents prior to eating the stomach.

Secondly I have many reasons for avoiding commercial pet food.
Harmful ingredients - Drugs given to food animals (hormones, antibiotics, de-wormers) can still be present after the meat and by-products are processed into pet foods. This includes sodium pentobarbital which is used to euthanize companion and livestock animals. Preservatives BHA, BHT, propylene glycol and ethoxyquin are toxic and carcinogenic substances. Other ingredients can include fecal material, hair, feathers, hide, horns, hooves, beaks, diseased tissue and inedible objects such as plastic, styrofoam, metal and glass.

Lack of regulations. Companies can advertise food from sick, diseased, dying and disabled animals as wholesome fresh meat. If an ingredient is in a small amount it does not have to be on the label.

Contamination can occur from unsanitary processing, improper storage, chemical residues and toxic ingredients (such as melamine in the 2007 Menu Foods recall).

Lack of digestability. Just because the label states 18% protein doesn't mean it is in a form that is digestible by our pets.

The methods that are used to process even wholesome raw foods into kibble destroys the natural enzymes and greatly diminishes nutritional value.

Now I know exactly what my dogs are eating. No more wondering what is really in that bag of food.

Jennifer

I've often wondered about this. Strider, and my boss' old wolf hybrid both pick/ed berries and eat/ate them (the hybrid lived to 17 yrs. old).

It's really funny, I take the dogs out to the pasture and after zooming around Strider runs over to the blackberries and salal and he will graze on berries for hours if we let him. He picks them off with his lips.:rofl1: It's exactly like how my boss' old hybrid used to eat them.

He also will pick my summer squash and apples, and eat them. I don't think he can digest it very well. It comes out looking like everything else he eats, but maybe he needs the roughage and craves it?

Also, is cow poop actually bad for them to eat? Charlie has no interest in picking berries, but he LOVES cow pie. When I look at how inefficient the cow's digestive process is and how much vegetable matter comes out softened up but intact, really it's probably good for him as long as we keep him wormed.

NOTHING has made me feel more confident that grain-free, species appropriate kibble & raw is worth every penny than working at a Pet Hotel. I see these Border Collies, fed Iams and Science Diet and Pedigree, and I feel all of the tumors, bumps, and sparse fur, and I see their yellow/brown teeth, and their limping and low energy... and I think they're pushing 15 years old. It floors me when I find out that they are the same exact age as Gonzo. It makes me wonder what Gonzo's health WOULD be like if I didn't reseach foods early on and begin feeding grain-free and then raw just a few years ago, and it makes me so sad for those dogs whose owners just don't know. Their owners will pay $50/day for their dog to go to play groups and get individual attention, while little do they know their dogs most basic need - a species-appropriate diet - is being utterly neglected and forgotten.

I can honestly spot a premium-fed dog and a cheapo-fed dog from a mile away at this point. When you get to SEE and FEEL the difference between the dogs, and you get to pick up the waste that they produce, it really drives home the point that dogs might survive on a diet based upon cheap fillers and by-products, but it's simply against common sense to believe that they could possibly thrive on a diet that their body is not built to digest. If you saw raw poop next to Ol Roy poop that is blatantly obvious.

I choose the natural route with no corn, no by-products etc... because I have seen a difference in my dogs on this as far as their coats, body condition, energy level, poops etc... as compared to to the other junk type foods. Thats enough for me. Thats my own "research" on foods over the years. Seeing it with my own eyes.

We had a lab growing up who would eat plums until his stomach would explode (not literally, of course!) He just LOVED fruit. We had several trees in the backyard (plums, apples, apricots, and a small vegetable garden) and he would graze on all of them. I don't know if his body was telling him he needed it, or he was just like a kid in the candy store, eating what tasted good, but he definitely ate them on his own, despite our constant attempts to keep them out of his reach!

Talking to older relatives (as in over 70) about how they fed their farm dogs.. basically it was the left overs. But we are talking farm raised animals and a bit of farm raised veggies. There pretty much was no grain fed to them.

If you look at when dogs and humans 'hooked' up we didn't eat much grain then either. Its only been a relatively recent thing that dogs have been feed 'special' foods. Before we ate heathier (comparatively speaking) and so did they.