Bias and hypocricy of views

DanL

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#81
If that were a real situation, that dog still didn't ask to turn out that way. It shouldn't be killed. That would be a temperment flaw yes, so being to that extreme (or whatever the fault may be) if that is being passed on then maybe the dog/dogs producing such a fault just shouldn't be bred, if they are producing puppies so bad someone feels the need to kill them. That is certainly not the desired result of breeding.

So when that fearful dog bites some kid, it's OK, because the dog didn't ask to be that way? Now you are sued, your dog is killed anyway, and some kid is hurt. Should the person who has a fearful dog never let it around anyone? What if the person doesn't realize they have a fearful dog and think the showing of teeth, hackles up, head down, looking at you from the corner of it's eyes, tail tucked is how a dog shows protection?
 

Romy

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#82
If that were a real situation, that dog still didn't ask to turn out that way. It shouldn't be killed. That would be a temperment flaw yes, so being to that extreme (or whatever the fault may be) if that is being passed on then maybe the dog/dogs producing such a fault just shouldn't be bred, if they are producing puppies so bad someone feels the need to kill them. That is certainly not the desired result of breeding.

So when that fearful dog bites some kid, it's OK, because the dog didn't ask to be that way? Now you are sued, your dog is killed anyway, and some kid is hurt. Should the person who has a fearful dog never let it around anyone? What if the person doesn't realize they have a fearful dog and think the showing of teeth, hackles up, head down, looking at you from the corner of it's eyes, tail tucked is how a dog shows protection?
In some cases, fearfulness could be considered a fault to the point of being a mental illness that interferes with the dogs quality of life.

If I produced an animal that is so afraid of interaction with human beings that I seriously thought it was a bite risk to keep it around, then yes I'd euth it. Partly for the protection of human kind, and partly for the dog's comfort. If a dog is that scared of people, just think how much it would be suffering every day of it's life, every time someone got too close.

If it was just an insecure personality, proper socialization and confidence building can do a lot to overcome that. Definitely would be spayed/neutered, and I would seriously reconsider ever repeating that breeding.
 

puppydog

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#83
Chorus about benefits of spaying and neutering is driven by politics and animal rightist ideology. It is not based on scientific data, as those proponents claim.
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

It is simply a question of convenience. Some people like to keep surgically modified animals, such as desexed, with removed vocal cords, removed claws, etc.
Um, I sterilised my animals because I wanted to, not because some politician made me. I do not like intact animals living with me. I prefer them to not have the associated issues.
 

DanL

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#84
Um, I sterilised my animals because I wanted to, not because some politician made me. I do not like intact animals living with me. I prefer them to not have the associated issues.
What are the associated issues with intact animals?
 

Xandra

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#85
What are the associated issues with intact animals?
Female dogs- heat, kinda nasty.
Male cats- spraying, you'll need to put in new drywall, that's how pungent it is.
Male dogs- hard on every 15 minutes/every time they sit. Only noticed this with intact males. Disturbs company.
 

Dekka

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#86
hmm wow.. none of my intact male dogs has EVER had anything like that Xandra.. I tend to keep most of my guys intact unless there is a reason not too.

For example Kaiden will be turning 6 in sept. He has never humped anything but a girl ready to be bred. He only marks in the house if a girl is in heat.. AND I forget to take him out often (he is happy to mark outside) He is very non aggressive and non reactive with other male dogs-intact or not. You never see his 'pencil'.

Snip was the same except he liked to fight boys in the house.. so he got his parts removed. But he was never rude when he was a 'full' boy.

Dash is intact.. you never see his parts, he doesn't hump anyone or anything. Even the fosters that we have had have never had those issues....
 
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#87
Female dogs- heat, kinda nasty.
Male cats- spraying, you'll need to put in new drywall, that's how pungent it is.
Male dogs- hard on every 15 minutes/every time they sit. Only noticed this with intact males. Disturbs company.


Both male and female cats spray. Fixed or not.

Its a anxiety based marking behavior...anxiety does decrease with altering...but if a cat is stressed about som'thing...spraying is always an option.
 

smkie

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#88
Tom cat fighting and the spread of feline lukemia should be as big of a concern as spraying. I would not in anyway own a tomcat. THeir life is hell. I saw one the other day..ears missing, thick cheeks using puss. A horrible life.

I have had intact male dogs all my life that did not mark in the home or in the yard where i did not want them to. NOr did they do this anywhere i took them.
 
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#89
Tom cat fighting and the spread of feline lukemia should be as big of a concern as spraying. I would not in anyway own a tomcat. THeir life is hell. I saw one the other day..ears missing, thick cheeks using puss. A horrible life.
I have had intact male dogs all my life that did not mark in the home or in the yard where i did not want them to. NOr did they do this anywhere i took them.

I completely agree. Both my male cats are neutered and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I just don't see the "its stops spraying" as a good arguement for neutering...because it certainly doesn't always stop the behavior.

People seem to get frustrated (with dogs and cats) when they neuter them and the animal isn't automatically behaving better. Thats why using neutering to alter behavior should be seen on a bigger scope.
 

Xandra

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#90
Dekka, my dog's humping career is limited to a male bernese mountain dog. The berner started it and they took turns humping each other for hours. When he was a puppy he used to hump his bed, but he was like, 8-16 weeks? So I'm pretty sure that wasn't even sexual(?) But other than those two instances, nothing like that. He's never marked in the house, and he's fine with male and female dogs alike as long as they aren't "rude" to him. I don't think he's ever started a fight. But it seems like over half the time I look at him sitting, it's out. It's about the only intact-issue that I've really found to be an issue, but it's pretty minor.

I've read about females spraying, but I've never directly heard it, and never about cats that were fixed from kittenhood. At any rate. Unfixed males are pretty notorious for spraying. Ours has never full out sprayed, but he "misted" once.
 
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#91
If that were a real situation, that dog still didn't ask to turn out that way. It shouldn't be killed. That would be a temperment flaw yes, so being to that extreme (or whatever the fault may be) if that is being passed on then maybe the dog/dogs producing such a fault just shouldn't be bred, if they are producing puppies so bad someone feels the need to kill them. That is certainly not the desired result of breeding.

So when that fearful dog bites some kid, it's OK, because the dog didn't ask to be that way? Now you are sued, your dog is killed anyway, and some kid is hurt. Should the person who has a fearful dog never let it around anyone? What if the person doesn't realize they have a fearful dog and think the showing of teeth, hackles up, head down, looking at you from the corner of it's eyes, tail tucked is how a dog shows protection?
First, ANY dog can bite. Second if an owner dosn't know dogs well enough to read that kind of behavior they don't need a dog. And what has a person done to the dog to cause him to react that way?
 
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#93
i thought humping was a dominance thing , not a sex thing.


It can simply be a "im excited and don't know how to express it" thing...

most of the serial humpers (like the kind that will stop at nothing (even pain) to hump other dogs) I've met weren't socialized with other dogs (som' not at all) they are unaware of how to act socially...they can be friendly, and soo excited to see the other dog that it arouses them and they don't know how to handle that social excitement.

At least that is my understanding and what I've observed. I've seen non humpers mount dogs in the middle of a very exciting, friendly situation.
 

Cheetah

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#94
Male dogs- hard on every 15 minutes/every time they sit. Only noticed this with intact males. Disturbs company.
My boyfriend's dog is neutered and he pokes his "lipstick" out any time he gets excited. I don't think it has much to do with being altered or not.
 

-bogart-

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#95
It can simply be a "im excited and don't know how to express it" thing...

most of the serial humpers (like the kind that will stop at nothing (even pain) to hump other dogs) I've met weren't socialized with other dogs (som' not at all) they are unaware of how to act socially...they can be friendly, and soo excited to see the other dog that it arouses them and they don't know how to handle that social excitement.

At least that is my understanding and what I've observed. I've seen non humpers mount dogs in the middle of a very exciting, friendly situation.
hmm cool ! thanks for the info , i will keep it in mind!
 

Romy

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#96
Oddly enough, we own two intact males and they never, ever hump each other. Ever. I was totally surprised because I expected some to happen, but it doesn't.

On the other hand, when my aunt's spayed female poodle mix comes to visit, she tries her hardest to hump both boys. Just weird.

And they don't get hard ons every 15 minutes. Not even close. It happens so rarely I don't even notice.
 
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#97
Oddly enough, we own two intact males and they never, ever hump each other. Ever. I was totally surprised because I expected some to happen, but it doesn't.

On the other hand, when my aunt's spayed female poodle mix comes to visit, she tries her hardest to hump both boys. Just weird.

And they don't get hard ons every 15 minutes. Not even close. It happens so rarely I don't even notice.
My altered female dog will mount the cat...lol In the heat of really exciting play.

Other than that, same here, there are no "lipsticks" and no mounting in any other context.
 

smkie

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#98
question..do you use fly wipe to keep the flies from eating off the tips of their ears? I am assuming you have flies where you live. I don't think anyone is really exempt from them. THat is a preventative. ANd you say you feed them. Why do you not expect them to kill their own food if you insist that they live a wild life? DO you clip nails? IF you do not remove the dewclaw that is necessary no matter what they run on. I am just curious? What about eye injury? IS the dog expected to go on with one eye since there is no vet care...even tho it could be treated easily? WHat if they need stitches? Do you do that yourself? WHat difference is it between your doing it or a vet?

My male intact dogs have never humped anyone past 3 months old. It is a behavior i put a stop to. Just because they are intact is no excuse. I have seen neutered males that are horrid about it that belonged to other people. So I don't think that means anything as to being neutered or not.
 

Xandra

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#99
I thought my dog was a bit of a freak at first, but I noticed quite a few photos of "excited" males that were intact, on the internet.

Those that have normal males... consider yourselves lucky :p

Normally if a dog has an "issue" I will just fix it, but I don't think there's much I can do about that particular one lol
 

-bogart-

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question..do you use fly wipe to keep the flies from eating off the tips of their ears? I am assuming you have flies where you live. I don't think anyone is really exempt from them. THat is a preventative. ANd you say you feed them. Why do you not expect them to kill their own food if you insist that they live a wild life? DO you clip nails? IF you do not remove the dewclaw that is necessary no matter what they run on. I am just curious? What about eye injury? IS the dog expected to go on with one eye since there is no vet care...even tho it could be treated easily? WHat if they need stitches? Do you do that yourself? WHat difference is it between your doing it or a vet?

My male intact dogs have never humped anyone past 3 months old. It is a behavior i put a stop to. Just because they are intact is no excuse. I have seen neutered males that are horrid about it that belonged to other people. So I don't think that means anything as to being neutered or not.
question to you smkie , where does he state in this thread or the other one that he does not go to vet? just reread both entire thread and can not find anymention of him not going to vets when needed. in fact on post # 47 and # 48 of other thread he expliocatly says he will take them in for an emergency.
after reading this forum for years i expected more from you , i guess i shouldn't but i did.
~ walks away wondering about this board and the peeps on it~
 

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