government assistance?

Almost every piece of furniture we have we got for free. It's mismatched but in good shape and most of it is pretty comfy. I have two free desks, three free chairs, a large kitchen table with four chairs, free shelving unit and more. I paid $50 for Fiona's double bed from a nice clean home and my parents helped us get our bed. The tv/entertainment unit is one thing we splurged on because we wanted a sturdy one so Fiona wouldn't be able to pull it down on herself. We do big grocery shopping trips at a time. Usually each paycheque and get stock up on dry and frozen goods. Then we just buy milk etc as necessary. We certainly splurge now and then. I'll buy a chai latte when I go out with friends and I love to buy toys for Fiona. Especially when they are on sale. We have the second cheapest cable subscription which is a definite splurge and whatever internet comes with it. Sometimes I think about downsizing that and I'm sure we will when I go back to school in the fall.

Even when we have a better income down the road I don't see that changing much. I'll still spend money on quality used items as much as possible. No tax, better prices and you're helping out local people instead of large companies. Anyway, I think it's quite possible to have a lot of decent stuff when you are on a tight budget. Especially when you have a handy guy around to repair things other people throw away lol

There are 23 pages of posts in this thread, so obviously I haven't read them all or been able to keep up with wherever the thread has led to, if it's now on a diff. subject. But going back to the original question, I've thought it over a lot, and I do regret some of what I've said it the thread, especially towards one poster in particular.

Who I believe should receive financial assistance is ANYONE who is struggling financially, but is doing the best they can. Someone who needs that little bit of a push to help them buy groceries, or get their child to a doctor, or themselves to a doctor, or to get their child some clothes, who would otherwise not be able to afford it without a little outside assistance. I know it's not black and white, and there's 50,000 miles of gray area that's melted in-between, but it's midnight and that's my honest to God two cents on who I think should get it. Not those who pop out children just for extra money, or sit around and get assistance because they don't want to go out and get a job. I think assistance should be for those who CAN work and are working, and are doing the best they can. For those who cannot work due to disability, or other health reason, that's a totally diff. story and I don't think that makes them mooching either, as they are deserving as well.

As far as someone being 'smug' because they've gotten further in life, I don't think there's any excuse for someone to be 'smug'. If you go to college, get a degree, and go out and get a great paying job that affords you all the things in life you deserve, good for you. Absolutely, and you deserve it. If you didn't go to college, but clawed your way to the top to have everything if life that you have, same thing, congrats and you fully deserve it. But that doesn't give anyone the excuse to be smug. My definition of smug, and it may vary from the definition that others have, is a false sense of superiority, or a sense of being better than someone else. That's smug to me, and I don't think there's ever an excuse for it.

Not everyone has the ability to go to college, too many kids don't qualify for grants, and can't afford loans. And many do claw their ways into great jobs without a college degree, but that doesn't make anyone any better than those still stuck at the bottom, clawing their way up, and have nothing to their name as a result.

I've never been on assistance, my parents have never been on assistance. Neither one of my parents graduated highschool, but my dad started rebuilding cars as a teenager, and grew up to be a mechanic and a truck driver. Now he's been driving diesel trucks for over 30 years, and also is a mechanic manager for the same company he works for now, after being a mechanic on the side for over 25 years. My dad worked his way to where he is now and he's only home 2 nights a month, and stays gone the rest of the time working constantly so that his family, especially his wife, can have everything he feels we deserve.

When I was younger, we hardly had anything. We lived in an old trailer, in a trailer park filled with crime. My mom worked 2 jobs and my dad worked 2 jobs, and my grandmother kept me during the day, just to keep a roof over our head. They shared 1 car that was literally falling apart. At one time, we depended on an aunt and uncle just to have dinner, and my grandmother who moved in with us, helped pay our house note with her small monthly SS check. My parents applied for assistance back then and were turned down, and told they made TOO MUCH MONEY. But they didn't. Between them they worked four jobs, but it was never factored in that they were raising a child, had a house note, house insurance, car note, car insurance, medical bills for me, groceries, electricity, running water, and all the bills that come with life. It sucked their funds dry, and for years my parents lived on the verge of losing everything, and even gave up and filed for bankruptcy. It's been around 15 years ago now, but still.

And things have gotten better as time as gone on, but in the economy today, nothing is ever certain. Someone can be smug with their college education and wonderful paying job, doesn't mean their immune to layoffs in the future. So I never think smugness is something to be proud of.

We're not dirt poor anymore, but the economy has proven that anything can happen. Just 3 years ago, we weren't 'rich' but we were doing pretty damm good. In a matter of 6 months, my parents went out and bought a nice used car, a brand new truck, a house with land out here in the country, and the workshop my dad had always dreamed of. We afforded to re-gravel our driveway, buy an expensive riding mower, a laptop, new tvs, and they took a vacation. Yep things were looking great and life really wasn't all that bad.

Things continued to go great until my dad lost his job awhile back. It took him over 2 months to get a new job, despite his background, and relying only on my job and mom's part-time job, bills completely stacked up. By the time my dad found a job 2 months later and a paycheck rolled in, the house was almost 3 months behind with foreclosure papers sitting on the table. Because my job and her job had to pay for the vehicles, pay for groceries, pay the electricity, ect. Who knew that would ever happen, when months before, it had never been a concern.

Now my dad is working a great job again, and things are once again smooth sailing. For now. Bills are easily payed with a little money left over for some small luxuries. But with the economy, my parents learned a lesson in making sure they add to a savings account in case anything was to happen again. Something they had never done before.

So anyways, past all that rambling, my point was basically what I said in the beginning: I think welfare should be for anyone who is doing the best they can, but is still struggling and needs outside help in order to pay for basic necessities, which includes keeping themselves and their children fed, a roof over their head, and a vehicle to drive to get to work.

And if you understand all of what I just wrote... awesome, LOL.

i saw a lot of people used thrift shops/freecycle.

here's something to try.

i went to a garage sale a long time ago, it was late afternoon so it was almost over *i'm not a morning person and it's not worth the damage to my pride when i'm beat up by an old person who thinks i'm trying to beat them to the sale* and the people there were selling walmart sacks for $5. the deal was you left everything that was an expensive easy to pawn item *electronics/collectables* but anything else you could shove into that bag was free game.you could take however much you wanted as long as long as it fit the bag.

i thought that was really cool and have actually gone to garage sales toward the end to ask if that is a suitable deal for them. more often than not they are ok with it.

i know this is an off topic thing but i think it could help some here. *i usually went for crazy/weird easy to sell on ebay stuff but i can imagine how many outfits for children you could fit in a bag.

FZC For being mid night that was verry well said

just a note i forgot to mention it's pretty important you go toward the end of the sale. *sat afternoon usually* they are generally more open to that suggestion when it's time to clean up

I've largely stayed out of this . . . other than to comment on the wonders of thift stores.

But I guess I'll have my say. ANYONE can fall. If there is one thing I've learned in life, its that until you are old enough to have a lot of money put away (assuming you have a good job and can put money away), just about everyone isn't that far from the breadline. I've seen too many bright young lawyers (and staff) with good, stable jobs, lose those jobs with no warning. These are responsible people who worked hard and did everything "right". Then, with very little warning, through no fault of their own, its gone.

I have managed to keep my job. But there was a period I thought I would lose it (no one is safe, even now) and I was agonizing about my rent, and my car payment. Maybe I shouldn't have bought the car (its not an extravagant car, but it is new) maybe not rented this place (not extravagant, but I could probably live without the yard). But a friend pointed out that both are well within what is considered responsible and reasonable for my income. And generally, in my field, you are given lots of time to find another job if they are thinking of terminating you. I had no reason to do other than I did, unless I was going to live as if I could lose my job at any moment, and that's not very optimistic. I'm not saying this at all to make you feel sorry for me . . . one, I have a job still, and two, there are many, many people far, far, far worse off than I. But anyone can fall.

I learned that during my stint among the working poor after college. I was very well educated, did very well in school, etc . . . and I was going hungry. Maybe I didn't learn it well enough . . . but, well, everyone, including many people who are both responsible and rather cheap, seemed to think that buying the car and renting the house were utterly reasonable things to do.

One other thing . . .of course people game the system. They are people. People will ALWAYS game the system, or more correctly, there will always be people that do. Whether they are gaming it by actually committing fraud, or by not taking advantage properly of the help they are given, they will do it. Its just human nature. The problem for society is to figure out how to minimize people exploiting aid without denying aid to those who need it, and without completely torturing the needy as well, preferably. But no matter how good the system is, people will take advantage . . . you can't deny help to everyone else because of those people.

Well, since this thread is still alive and kicking, I think I will add a few more of my opinions, LOLO

I noticed people were bringing up various programs like WIC, housing, school lunch, etc etc etc. To me, that is a whole other ball game. If you are working, stretching to make ends meet, and are still a bit short..........USE THOSE PROGRAMS. That is why they are there. If you are honest about your household income and still fall into the guidelines of ANY of those programs.......USE THEM!

Why should the people who are sitting home on their bums CHOOSING not to work be the only ones benefiting from those type of programs? I think those programs are EXACTLY the type of help people need...........they aren't hand outs, they are helping hands when you are trying your best and coming up short, the extra boost your household needs to keep afloat.

But then I feel the same about food stamps and the like............if you are out there working but not quite making it, then those programs were made with you in mind. They were never made to give people a permanent vacation.

I believe in God. I believe in Jesus. I believe in Christian charity, but let me say that even the bible states pretty plain..........."Whoever does not work should not eat" 2 Thessalonians 3:10

And that is not talking about widows, orphaned children, etc, there are also statements and explanations on how the down trodden should be handled and treated..............but again, that isn't the ABLE BODIED WHO CHOOSE NOT TO CONTRIBUTE.

IF you do give to charities please remember that things like lightbulbs, laundry soap, shampoo, bandaids, neosporin gel, trash bags are all things that are hard to come by. Nothing in this world depresses me more then getting down to one or two lightbulbs and having to change them from room to room. Been there a couple of times. All those little things people take for granted suck big time when you cannot get them. I am out of bandaids. Hyia cut her foot yesterday and it wasn't a place where a piece of tape and a folded over piece of papertowel was going to cut it. IT's the end of the month. I will have money in a couple days, but that was not yesterday. WE drove to Gg's. SHe gave me a box of bandaids. What in the world we would do without her i do not know. IF you give to food drives canned meat, not raman. CAnned fruit instead of canned corn, not just peanut butter tho peanut butter is nice. Juice that is in a can and can be stored. Not just generic mac and cheese and pasta but real nutritous stuff that can keep awhile. EVen better children's vitimins. YOu can get soda and candy with foodstamps but you can't get a bottle of children's supplements, =or pediolyte.

WE were adopted for Christmas by this church when my children were in their preteens. They wanted to know what we wanted for pressies. I told them i can't even think about Christmas. I need all those things that i wrote above. BLess their hearts they stocked us up. IT also included things that teens need like face acne stuff, good antiperspirant, lotion, and more.

Does Hyia have Medicaid and will her doctor prescribe her vitamins? I know the girls I worked with, their doctors would prescribe things that could be over the counter so that their insurance would cover it because, yes, that stuff can add up quickly

She has it but i dind't think they would cover it. THey wouldn't cover the cough stuff that was over the counter. I will have to check into that. Thanks! I got a one time pass for SAm's club and took MOm. She stocked up so we are good for now. I just think it is wrong that they won't let you get them but you can get candy and crap that is not good for them. IT doens't make sense.

Smkie, what Pam is referring to is that if you want medicaid or other insurance to pay for necessary non-prescription items, you have to have a doctor write a prescription for them as if they were regular prescription items. This just verifies that they are medically necessary, and then they will cover. This usually applies to such things as diabetes test strips and meters, vitamins for kids, calcium supplemetns if you are at risk of osteoporosis, etc.

It does not always work. Cough and cold remedies are almost never covered, for example.

IF it covers for osteo that would help with me too. Will check into that! THanks!

When I was on EI Fiona got her medical covered including prescriptions so our doctor would prescribe us stuff like Nystatin for yeast rashes instead of me buying it off the shelf. Very helpful.

Other people make their choices on their own moral values??? And what of those that have no moral values. Have you ever lived in the same town as a person who doctor shopped to find one that would finally sign a piece of paper stating he/she was disabled so that they could get on disabilty? I have. And I've witnessed that when the first cheque arrived the vacations started. The money bought the utmost ridiculous items, bought extra pets, in other words all of a sudden nothing was too good . Still going strong and having the good life. Is that the kind of morals a person is allowed to have to get free $$$ from the rest of us working our butts off?
I don't call that being judgemental, I call it seeing the light. If there are kids involved they witness this and they will be the next generation of losers milking the system. That is the example they are living by, why not apply it to themselves when they grow up and find that working for a living is too hard.?
And I repeat, I will be the first to hand out help to the REALLY needy but when it comes to fakes milking the system no way will I ever approve. I happen to be disabled ( physically) and I do not collect assistance. I work as well as does my husband and we make do and pay our own way.

I would like to add this is in no way intended for Smrkie . I have only to read her/his posts to know the real need in this case and I would be the first to help out.

I don't think anyone has any respect for people who act in that fashion. The question in my mind, though, is in terms of government policy . . . do we make policy regarding assistence with people like that in mind, or with honest people come on hard times in mind? I think MOST people on assistence are probably reasonably honest. They might not be totally responsible, they may not, in many cases, be all that bright (Smkie totally excluded), but they are honest enough and doing the best they can. I have always found it desturbing that our public debate on these issues is often driven by examples of the worst abuses. There will be abuses . . . the restructuring of welfare back in the Clinton years reduced them, but people will always game the system. That's people for you.

And the alternative to kids growing up learning to game the system is kids growing up, in most cases, with no oppurtunity. There were always irresponsible people who had 10 kids and no self-respect. Its just that they used to starve or turn to crime or beg on the streets. Or they got locked up in poor houses, a practice I really hope we don't return to.

You know, now that someone else has resurrected this thread I also have a comment.

I reread this thread to figure out what I found most disturbing.

Parts of this thread have devolved into people from Chaz who have unfortunate financial circumstances describing them, and then others telling them that they are different and that it is Okay for them to get financial assistance.

This is just about the most unpleasant and demeaning phenomenon I have ever witnessed on here. Please, people, don't allow this to be done to you. Do not allow these people to sit in judgement of you and your circumstances.

**and Lilavati, your posts in this thread are amazing. You say what I would like to, clearly and concisely.

I think that is a pretty optimistic statement, optimistic and not accurate IMO. I guess you are lucky not to be around, know, or related to these "few" abusers...........cause I can tell you right now, out of the plenty I know on assistance I can only think of ONE who truly needs to be on it. I am talking in real life, not internet people.

And I am SURE others here at chaz, all over internet land, and perhaps even people in your real life could attest to the same.

I don't have a solution to make it all better, I truly wish I did because the ones who actually NEED it could get so much more and have stress taken out of the equation for them.

I had to go to Walmart yesterday and the parking was awful !!! I couldn't believe the people taking the disabled slots !!!! As long as I can walk , I will ! Sadly most are way over weight and should walk !

I think that the intent of some of the posters was to illustrate that the (unfortunate) stereotype of the welfare layabout doesn't apply to many, many people. To say that they were demeaning themselves is not, I think, fair. Though I agree that the there were a number of posts in this thread that have made me intensely uncomfortable.

I did not mean to imply that the people were demeaning themselves. My beef is not with the people presenting their circumstances, but rather with their judges. I have circumstances. They suck. I do not need you people to tell me that. My pride takes enough hits in other places where it is unavoidable.

I am also intensely uncomfortable with all of this, though I suspect you have already guessed that.