What do you guys think?***BREEDERS***

Ok, I need your thoughts on this breeders.

As I'm sure some of you already know, I've decided I want to start getting into dog shows, starting with conformation. Anyway, I'm trying to find "the breeder" for me. So I emailed a few breeders, to talk to them and set up a time for me to visit them and such.

Anyway, one of the breeders had this online pre-screen form that you fill out. For the question, "Why have you chosen to bring a Cardigan into the family?" I wrote "I would like to get into conformation shows and possibly agility shows. I'm not sure exactly when I want to get the dog, but I would like to start talking to breeders and such so I am ready when that time comes"

I also tried to word that in in a few other questions(there was no email address to just directly email them). A few days later, I got an email that they didn't have any puppies, but could direct me to people with other puppies. I didn't email them back right away, and before I could I got another email saying that a male pup just became avail. It had the price and that there was a neuter contract that he would have to be fixed before 1 yr of age. It also said he had people on a waiting list, but promised me first.

So I responded to that one, that I am looking for a show dog, so I don't think that it would work. I also wrote that I'm still looking for the right breeder for me, and I'm going to be taking this slow, and if he had any advice to offer me I'm all ears.

The respond was that this guy has great breeding, and he's worthy of being shown.

Now, the only "communication" I've had was the form I filled out, and that one email I sent to him. This breeder was on my list of ones to visit. What do you guys think though? As I've said before, I'm trying to do this slow and right. So, since there are so many on chaz who are way more experienced than I, and ones who are in the breeding circle... I thought I would ask.

Also, he told me who the sire is, but I don't know who the dam is. He said that this dog has all New Zealand breeding, but the sire is owned by him and he's not in NZ(but the dog did come from NZ). And the dog is not on his website(But I got the feeling something happened, that he ended up with the dog so that would explain him not having it on the website). He also didn't say how old the dog is.

thoughts?

Personally, I wouldn't do it. If his only communication is to push a puppy onto you, then that is a red flag to me. Not to mention that initially the puppy had to be neutered and now the puppy will make a great show prospect. Which is it? Pet quality dogs don't just turn into show quality dogs in a matter of hours.

I don't truly consider myself a breeder (I've had 4 litters in 12 years), but if someone is interested I give them a call and we usually end up talking for quite a long time. I enjoy getting to know people and discussing with them their reasons behind wanting the breed, their plans for the dog, etc.

It really doesn't sound like that this person cares all to much where the dog is going. It is very easy to put an online form up in a half-ass effort to look reputable, but it takes much more than that to actually be reputable.

JMHO.

I wasn't really planning on getting this dog. But this breeder was on my list of possibles, that's why I'm asking what people think about the situation(should I scratch him?)

I would never buy a dog on line .....Contact the Breed Club and go from there .

I got his website off the breed club's....

Even if you weren't planning on getting that specific dog, I wouldn't go with the breeder at all. He's too interested in making a "now" sell to you when he should be willing to just shoot the breeze with you.

^^ yeah, that's what I was thinking. I know a lot of breeders have waiting list and stuff(some even a few yrs in advance), so I was a little shocked when he said he could direct me to people who had puppies now. But there's a LOT I don't know about breeders/breeding as all of my dogs(until this one) have always been rescues.

I understand completely. When I was researching the APBT and getting to know the breed, I went to every show within reasonable driving distance (I'm in LA & would go to TX, AR, MS, & sometimes AL). I would talk to several owner/breeders. And once I explained myself, as you have, none would pressure me into getting a pup. In fact, most told me to wait until I was settled (I was in highschool living with my parents), could afford it, and knew enough about them. Those people talked to me about everything from my playing soccer to my dog experience. I learned from them what to look for in a breeder and what to look for in a dog.....even if I didn't go to them to get the dog.

IMO that's what you want...someone who cares more for the breed rather than finding you a pup now.

Be PATIENT.

Stop looking for a dog, and look for a mentor instead.

Go to dog shows.

Join breed specific mailing lists or bulletin boards.

If the National Club puts out a newsletter, sign up to receive it.

Find out what local/regional clubs might be in your area and see about joining. Help put on events. EVERYONE LOVES A WORKER!

These are some ways to get to know about the breed, and more importantly, who is who, before you decide where you want to buy a puppy.

^^^^ Agree !

I am looking for a mentor, but at the same time, I'm looking for who I am going to put my name down on their waiting list. I also want the person I end up getting a puppy from to sort of be a mentor.

My question, is with this exchange between this breeder and me, would you scratch him off your list. I was planning to do that, but I don't like to just assume things about anyone, so I'm asking opinions. I'm no where near buying a dog yet.

I would not really eliminate anyone at this point. What I would do is stop asking about puppies. When you find the right person, and they understand your dedication level, getting a puppy won't be an issue.

So look for that mentor. Or several. The most important thing is to get to know the people before you decide who you want to hitch your wagon to.

You inquired about a puppy, so you're shocked when he said what he had and that he'd help show you the right direction? Sorry I don't get why this is so horrid? He has a puppy that he's looking to home. If the puppy isn't for you, it's not for you. I don't think that makes him a bad breeder. I did not talk to Pat long at all before we got Regis, and he is a great dog and she is a wonderful lady and an excellent mentor. I wouldn't shot this breeder down because he's doing what you asked.

What breeder is it?

CL: I never asked him about a puppy. I only had two communications with him, in both I showed that I was interested in talking to a breeder for advice bc I'm planning on getting a puppy in the future to start shows, and that I'm just starting the process now. He also claimed that he "promised" me a dog, but like I said, I filled out the pre-screen form, bc there was no email address that I could find. He then emailed me stating he didn't have any puppies, I DIDN'T respond to that. That's when I got the email about this dog. So no, he didn't "promise" me anything, I never talked to him. Then I got an email about this dog, which this is my exact response "Thank you for keeping me in mind! Unfortunately, I'm looking for a showdog so I don't think it's going to work. I'm still in the process of looking for "the breeder," so if you have any recommendations or advice I'm all ears! This will be my first show dog, so I'm taking it slow." He still tried to sell me this dog. All, without ever talking to me.

Also, the point of this thread, is for people who have more experience with breeders to tell me if this is a major red flag that I should take him off my list of "possibles," or if it's nothing major and I shouldn't worry. From what I've read about breeders(on chaz too), things like this are redflags. I didn't put his name anywhere in here, bc I don't know what the whole situation on his end is either. I don't want to possibly hurt his rep as a breeder, bc I may be overcautious.

I don't feel it's a red flag at this point.

I'd say if it feels like a redflag,,it's a redflag)

Going ONLY from what you've written,,it sounds like he's trying to push a puppy on you without asking you anything, and without thought to your initial request,,finding a breeder you can learn from in order to obtain a puppy to show in the future..

IF you have selected "your" breed,,I suggest finding an email group dedicated to 'that' breed, join it,,throw out there that your looking for a mentor and see what happens.
diane

Personally that would make ME eliminate that breeder from my choices... that's just a little too weird.

The question here is whether the breeder intended to interview you prior to placing a puppy with you or not? Of course, it is possible that he got you confused with someone else and thought he had already interviewed you. This may be why he said something about promising you a puppy. Personally I would get more information before crossing him off the list of potential breeders.

About the male pup who suddenly became available...it is possible that this puppy was one who was originally placed as a pet (hence the neuter agreement) but when the breeder got him back, the pup turned out to be far better quality than expected. Or the breeder had a litter that was all spoken for, then a pet owner backed out leaving a pet pup available, then a buyer switch (one backing out, a new one coming along) and a show pup became available. Hey it DOES happen!

Just my rambling thoughts......

It's also not uncommon in Cardis- at least in my experience- for there to be a lot of 'showable pet' pups- pups that are good enough to finish if the owner is dedicated to showing them, but probably won't be worth breeding, since people tend to have higher stanards for a stud dgo than they would for a brood bitch.

yeah, I think mills tend to gravitate towards pems....same as BYBs...