Its worse

I've seen that too Dekka, but it's so uncommon where as an increase in aggression with the decrease in estrogen resulting from a spay is more common.

I guess that my point was that I'd hate to see Jenn go ahead and spay her show dog in hopes of something that's statistically not in her best interest.

I would absolutely try anything before euthanasia, just as you did.

Yes I am conisdering a spay as a last resort. Besides IF she was ever bred its not untill late next summer. That gives us time to see what we can come up with as far as why this is happening.

I never had " fixed " dogs and all got along fine . I can truthfully say that none of my dogs ever fought amongst themselves ... males , females or opposite sex . I'm sure this is true with many breeds . Makes me wonder why . Also when they were fixed or neutered due to possible health issue and aging ... I say no difference in their personalities . Interesting to look into .

Umm thats cause they were golden retrievers. They are not known for any aggression that I know of (and I am not a breeder) Whippets also live together unfixed just fine. But they too are not a DR breed.

JRTs and Dobes are not goldens-no matter how well bred (well possibly badly bred ones might come closest) will they be like goldens. That is why you will have had different experiences. They are very different breeds.

Umm...off topic, much?

Dog aggression DOES NOT, in any way, equate with human/child aggression.

I quietly bow out .................

Ugh... that really blows. I'm sorry you're going through this with Jazz. =(

If all of this is just now arising, it doesn't sound great, but it could be a lot worse. Did she actually hurt Emma? I mean, that doesn't excuse it, but a (although pretty intense) display is way different than a full-on attack that means to harm. Fozzie became noticeable more grouchy with other dogs, including Gonzo and his dog friends, when he hit 2 years old. Before that, he seriously never growled at another dog. He went through a too-big-for-his-britches stage and that has definitely been decreased, with a little bit of classical conditioning and desensitizing.

For now, I would supervise ACTIVELY, like be right there in between them... and give Jazz lots of positive reinforcement and goodies when ever she's around Emma and both are calm. Emma's presence should be a great thing, not something to cause concern. That might not do much if she is truly same-sex DA, but it couldn't hurt.

We had that problem when our dachshund Hannah was dying. (The last year of her life). Charlotte was about 5-6 months old at the time and she CONSTANTLY was picking on poor Hannah and beating her up, and starting fights. We had to keep Charlotte completely away from her.

Now Charlotte picks on poor little Lucy. She pretty much raised Jannah and Reese since they were puppies (They learned to respect her as alpha) but Lucy came into our home as a full grown adult. it used to be really bad, but now they sleep in the same bed just fine!I had to train my mom actually...She had gotten in the habit of picking Charlotte up when she growled, which made Charlotte actually lash out on Lucy. But I told her to IGNORE Charlotte when she growls..because picking her up is praising her for growling. Fights haven't completely stopped, but now it only happens if the dogs are overly excited about something. Or if food is involved.

Get Jazz's thyroid checked. Checking Emma's wouldn't be a bad idea either.

I have been through this same thing. Good luck to you. Bitch fights are very hard to deal with.

Same sex agression can be a pain, but like others said, Jazz was not provoked in any way. People can miss signs and sometimes cant read their dogs, but nothing could have been missed, if the dog was sleeping.

I dont feel spaying will help. Jazz is already at the point of maturity. Things may never be able to go back to how they were, but thats what comes along with showing and breeding. 9 times out of 10 same sex dogs (with breeds like ours) will reach a point where they will never be able to be around each other. Rotation is key.

I'll take two males over two females anyday. AS the saying goes "Males fight to breed, b*tches fight to breath".

Update on everything:

I guess there was a bone near were Emma was sleeping. That could have caused it. Also When Jaz is in her crate (all crates are in the living room) if Emma gets close Jazz is growling even from her crate. Sigh

Well, the bone near Emma is a good thing, really..... She wasn't completely unprovoked.

Many dogs growl at other dogs when they're in their crates, even dogs who otherwise wouldn't be aggressive. Not a great behavior, of course, but certainly workable.

As if to say if she was provoked, it would be okay?

And to grab a sleeping dog by the head and then proceed to shake because she is simply laying next to, or around, a bone? I find that a bit scary.

first, SEPARATE THESE BITCHES NOW.

So far you have not had a serious injury, but IMO it is not far away if you do not separate NOW.

My experience with working breeds indicates that spaying CAN help in some situations. My 2 older girls, who now get along very well, did NOT before they were both spayed. Now they co exist very well together. They are also quite a bit older than when they had their altercation. However, with these 2 I never did see any of the growling, up on tippy toe, hard eye contact, etc. There were 2 incidents where the younger girl ripped the older gal's ear. I kept them separated for some time, then once both had been spayed they were pretty easy to get together again.

The growling/threatening from inside the crate is not good news. My 2 girls who hate each other now do this. They SERIOUSLY hate each other, after living harmoniously for almost 4 years together. It is possible as Penny ages, and once she is spayed, that this might dissipate. Time will tell.

However, I will tell you again: Until you get some control on this, your beagle's life is in danger. Your Dobe bitch is capable of killing her in the blink of an eye.

Be smart, and be careful.

I think I advised you to do this earlier, but if you have not already done so, GET PEPPER SPRAY. Keep it in a very handy location, and teach everyone in the house how to use it.

If there is ever a real fight, you will not stop it with your voice. But you CAN stop it with pepper spray, and it might save Emma's life. Don't wait. Separate these dogs, and get pepper spray.

I will also say that this behavior I do not find atypical of a strong temperament working bitch who is becoming an adult. This alone would not prevent me from breeding a bitch.

I would also be looking closer at Emma - I've seen some dogs (in other households, so no personal experience here) that would attack a weaker/sicker/elderly dogs unprovoked; somehow a "survival of the fittest" if you will. Maybe Emma is having the beginnings of an Addisonian crisis and Jazz senses the weakness? Wouldn't hurt to check her levels if she hasn't been in recently.

Attacking a sleeping dog unprovoked? wow. Just wow.

I don't get this. Why would you encourage breeding a dog that attacks others unprovoked? I have met bitches that only tolerate other bitches and dogs that only just tolerate other dogs, but a dog that flat out wants attack a dog that it has been raised with? sorry...I don't care how many ribbons a dog has won...a dog that attacks others in that way has a few screws loose upstairs. Scary.

I would never encourage the breeding of this particular bitch, nor any other.

One who would state that a dog aggressive Doberman bitch should not be bred simply because of the DA is displaying their ignorance of the innate temperament of the breed.

In working breeds, MANY if not MOST adult dogs do not tolerate other adults of the same sex. Often these dominant behaviors towards other dogs begin to surface at around 2 years of age, at maturity.

MANY Dobes or Rottweilers simply wake up one day and decide they hate a particular dog. I have 2 bitches who would kill each other. They both get along with the other bitch who is in the household.

There is a good reason why it is so often stated that one should get an opposite sex dog if you want 2 dogs, ESPECIALLY in certain breeds.

I agree with everything Redyre said.

Exactly! While this is very sad and just an awful thing for Jenn to have to go through, it is really not the big surprise that most seem to think.

Jenn also knows that no matter how large the area Emma and Jazz are no longer realiable at all together. Practice makes perfect and with each negative experience, things will escalate. Emma's life is absolutely at risk and Jenn is very clear about that.