This doesn't have much to do with the general discussion, but I have to step in here for a second. I spend a ton of time with Smkie and her dogs...she trains by fun and repetition. Not by choking, dragging, beating or anything else people might think she does because she trained field dogs. She is as sickened by Leerburg as the rest of us are...with the extreme exception of Pepper and her door dodging, I have never seen her use anything except time and focused goals to train. The dogs are ALWAYS having at least 50% of the fun and training is always made into a game. She's helping me with my dogs...and you would be amazed at what her dogs can do, just because she's taken the TIME and EFFORT and worked with them.
Ok, just had to say that.
I can see both sides of the arguments here, I really can. I also think we're still butting up against a dividing wall, because what one side is labeling as "garden variety aggression" is seen as something else by the other side...and then we've got the offshoot of someone who thinks any dog that isn't a stuffed Lassie is aggressive.
But, again, I think many people would be simply amazed at what they can get their dogs to do if they put in as much time and dedication to them as I've seen Smkie do. Those of you who have owned or worked with Pointers, you know how absolutely OCD they are about birds, squirrels, basically chasing anything that isn't a statue, right? Vic is still a Pointer, but he's learned that there are times and places to chase (I watched him run after some barn swallows the other day) and times when he needs to focus and leave things be. Many people would say it couldn't be done, that a bird dogs prey drive is just too high. But it can be done and has been done.
I've still veered off from aggression, lol. I know and understand that DA dogs or breeds prone to DA are ALWAYS going to have those instincts. I understand that you can't train them completely out. But I do think that most dogs (not anyone specific on the board) can be trained to a higher level of self-control and management than most people think possible, it just takes hours and hours of dedicated training time. Most people aren't willing to put that time in or are simply unable to because of other time demands. Smkie has the unique position of working from home and can use the 24 hours a day has to offer, instead of squeezing in a couple hours here and there after work and on the weekends.
How many times have we told someone who has a dog that barks how to teach it to be quiet? Or a "leave it" command because they chase or nip feet? I've got an Aussie...a very vocal herding breed by dint of genetics. Granted, he's not the best example because he does still bark his fool head off in play (though he's getting better about not barking at the squirrels all the time) but he does know what "leave it" means...he's not a mindless herding machine. It's all still about drives...we alter a dog's natural drive every single day of the year. I'm digressing again though and can't remember where I wanted to end up.