Question about breeds with show/working/sport split...

This is more of an opinion question than anything, but I've been wondering about it for a while.

Anywho, do you think it is okay for people to get the show line of the breed (show lab, show BC) even if they are aware of the split between the breeds and recognize that the working lines are more of the "true" breed? Or do you think that it is just working against the plight of many breed people to get their breed out of the ring and focused on the working aspect?

Am I making any sense?

You are making sense. I will admit I considered getting a conformation bred Border Collie for my next dog. Thought that they would be easier because they are less drivey and Spanky drove my batty as a pup. Then I met one and I changed my mind. There is a reason I love these dogs so much. I can't explain it really but the dogs that weren't bred with the original purpose in mind were severely lacking in what my dogs' have. I am not saying they aren't lovely companions but I'll stick with what I've got.

Personally, I would have NO interest in EVER buying a conformation-bred Border Collie. Not that they aren't beautiful dogs, or sweet dogs, or intelligent dogs. I've met many who are all of that and more. I just know I would feel guilty about it, I know I would always disagree with my decision to do so, and I know I would *compare* the dog to working BCs. Not to mention, I would be afraid that the dog would not grow up to be a "Border Collie"... when/if I choose to buy a BC from a breeder, I want that dog to be a BC, not an empty shell of one.

I absolutely feel that buying a conformation-bred BC would be working against the breed. I am ok with breeding lower drive dogs to higher drive dogs, to balance things out, but never would I want a dog from any AKC champions... as that would make them ineligible to be ABCA registered.

Okay thanks guys

It would depend on the breed. Some of them aren't as split. For example if I wanted a Boston Terrier I'm going to assume that conformation breeders would be the best way to go, bonus points if they do obedience. But I would never get a German Shepherd from a show home. I know there's the controversy of the AKC and popularity ruining breeds but on the other hand if there's no interest at all then there's potential for a breed to be lost entirely.

A working dog isnt for everyone but their are still those who admire a working breed, therefore have the conformation line route. I just hate when people dont truly understand a working breed because they are so used to seeing washed out conformation pets. Everyone thinks because I have german shepherds they are laid back cuddle bugs, and thats simply not true. Working line shepherds have very high drives (prey, defense, fight, hunt, pack) and can be challenging in an experienced owners hands, and down right devestating in a novices hands. But then there are sport lines, that focus more on prey drive than defense or fight drive. So there is a happy medium for those who want some working qualities without many agression issues that can occur if not dealt with properly. Its whatever floats your boat . The split between show/working/sport will always be there whether I stress out about it or not.

People should buy what suits them. The split isn't coming from the buyers, it's coming from what the breeders are breeding and what the judges are giving the wins to. I've seen some pretty awful judging decisions, and then all of a sudden everyone breeds for that. (Like the oversized corgis.)

I have no qualms with someone buying the dog that suits them. I'd have no desire for a bench lab or a bench border collie but I don't mind others buying them at all.

While I dont agree there should be a split it takes so much time and effort to be good at one let alone both. Also I prefer doing confo to anything else but that doesnt mean I dont appreciate a good working dog it just isnt my thing

I found a breeder who has conformation titles on a few of her cockers, and hunt titles on all of them. Many quite impressive with master hunt titles, and agility MACHs. She's stepped away from the show ring though. Decided she'd had enough. She has an amazing stud, titled at both ends.. But most of her girls are very very fieldy looking now, which isn't so my taste.. Sadly I'd like a little bit from both worlds and that is really hard to find in cockers.

IMO it comes more from the breeders than the judges. In my area it takes 2 BC's to make a point. It takes less than 6 BC's to make a major around here. You can't tell me that anyone who shows up at a show an enters a decent amount of their working bred BC's would never eventually put points on them/finish them. It has to do with the breeders being phobic of having that conformation stigma on them. If working people would put their money where their mouth is and show their working stock, they might actually change what is being put up in the show ring. Judges can only judge what is put in front of them, so if you don't show them any working dogs, they can't put up any working dogs.

I've been htinking about this for a while.
I don't know if my answer is completley relevant but anyway.

I know there is a lot of discussion on show bred dogs doign whatthey were originally bred to do. Like show bred BC's shoudl also be able to herd. And you knwo... I don't even care if they don't. I think in some breeds, the split is so great that the working lines vs the show lines means 2 different breeds. For example, kelpies. I would never purchase a kelpie that was a working dog/show dog mix. They are too differnt IMO and you would end up with puppies that msot likley wouldn't excel at herding or in the show ring.

I do have respect for dog shows, for the amount of work that goes into it. But I do think with some breeds, we have to start recognising how big the split really is.
If I was after a show bred BC, I herding titles in its pedigree might be a bonus, but I'd probably be moreso after obediance or agility titles because I wouldn't expect a great working dog to come in the form of a conf bred BC. Thats why when I do get a BC, it will be from working lines.

I'd one day liek to show, so I have nothing against it. But with how the split is in some breeds (like in kelpies, where bench kelpies and working kelpies don't even look remotley similar anymore) I think we need to start recognising them as sperate breeds.

I would rather take one of my working dogs and put it into the ring. I'm a big fan of those with working dogs actually showing those dogs. Bring the original standard back.

I don't know why the ring has to change a breedss standards. That bothers me.

^^Fully agree. In most breeds, the working standard was around before the show standard, so why is it so hard to put up a working dog? Because the standard was changed. I'm starting to think that if the standard has to be changed to accomodate a split, they might as well just go the whole hog and declare a new breed.

Or they could be smart and just freaking go back to the original standard.