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  #41  
Old 10-10-2013, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
My personal suspicion is that most dogs can thrive on a wide variety of diets, and that while any particular diet may be superior for an individual dog, that there isn't a blanket "better" diet for dogs as a species. I also suspect that for most dogs, even if one diet was "superior" to another, the degree of benefit is probably be negligible most of the time. I think other factors like the amount of exercise a dog gets and staying at a healthy weight have more of an impact than what the exact diet is for most dogs.
This is pretty much my entire point.

Kim is one of those exception dogs. Mira would thrive on any decent quality food so long as there is a lake involved :P
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  #42  
Old 10-10-2013, 12:26 PM
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[QUOTE=sassafras;2312791]The dogs were just detoxing, don't you know?[\quote]

That was exactly what it was brushed off as.

See to me that is a big deal... In a lot of eyes raw can do no wrong and questioning if issues arise from the raw food is a big no no.
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  #43  
Old 10-10-2013, 12:31 PM
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[QUOTE=Laurelin;2312801]
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The dogs were just detoxing, don't you know?[\quote]

That was exactly what it was brushed off as.

See to me that is a big deal... In a lot of eyes raw can so no wrong and questioning if issues arise from the raw food is a big no no.
Totally. The "detox" excuse is scary! IMO.

I've seen it with Orijen and higher protein foods too. I see quite a few who come to online forums saying their dog has had diarrhea ever since starting Orijen, and most say "oh, you're just over-feeding"... yes, SOME are likely over-feeding, but even so, over-feeding by just a little bit should not = your dog having loose stool and diarrhea consistently. I've seen some start to feed so little that I often wonder what the dog is lacking nutrition-wise. I just feel like a dog over 40lbs shouldn't be eating a scant 1/2 cup of food per day just to stop loose poop and appease the owners desire to have a perfect ingredient list.
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  #44  
Old 10-10-2013, 12:35 PM
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There is the odd dog who looks fine on crappy kibbles, but I think the majority don't.
And my experience is completely different. Most dogs out in the world are eating "crappy" kibbles and most of them I encounter (all day, every day) look perfectly fine.
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:40 PM
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And my experience is completely different. Most dogs out in the world are eating "crappy" kibbles and most of them I encounter (all day, every day) look perfectly fine.
But what looks fine to you may not look fine to me.

Growing up, I thought our dalmatian looked "fine" too. She was fed Pro Plan and Eukanuba. She had muscle tone, shiny fur, nice teeth... but she looks nothing like my dogs and the dogs I've encountered who are fed foods with better ingredients.

My dogs would look "fine" and probably do okay on a food like Beneful or Gravy Train, but they wouldn't look amazing like they do now, I'm sure.

Looks like we'll have to disagree
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  #46  
Old 10-10-2013, 01:11 PM
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But what looks fine to you may not look fine to me.
I guess dogs at a good weight, with nice teeth, healthy shiny coats, good energy and exercise tolerance, and no major health problems living well into their teens aren't fine?

Quote:
Looks like we'll have to disagree
I'm not sure how we can disagree about something that I am personally experiencing and you aren't. Essentially you're telling me that dogs I think look fine, aren't actually fine because... I'm not really sure why to be honest, other than it doesn't validate your opinion. My raw fed dogs and my kibble fed dog look pretty much exactly the same to me, which tells me that they are all "fine."

This is some of the cult of raw stuff that drives me nuts. "Sure they look fine, but they're not really fine." Whut?
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:22 PM
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I wish there were studies about raw vs kibble but like Sass said....who would believe them? It doesn't matter which way a study leaned, it probably wouldn't affect what people are doing.

I think people should feed what their dogs do best on. I feed raw but have switched back to kibble when I forget to order food. I'm not militant over their food either - they get all kinds of different table scraps (mostly from Matt, he's such a sucker) and they get a wide variety of treats. I think my dogs look amazing but the real benefit and the reason I won't switch back long term is their teeth. Murphy had two dentals in 3 years (at 5 years old and again at 7ish) and his breath was atrocious on kibble. On raw his teeth are pretty and sparkly and I don't almost asphyxiate when he breathes in my face. It's glorious.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:31 PM
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I guess dogs at a good weight, with nice teeth, healthy shiny coats, good energy and exercise tolerance, and no major health problems living well into their teens aren't fine?



I'm not sure how we can disagree about something that I am personally experiencing and you aren't. Essentially you're telling me that dogs I think look fine, aren't actually fine because... I'm not really sure why to be honest, other than it doesn't validate your opinion. My raw fed dogs and my kibble fed dog look pretty much exactly the same to me, which tells me that they are all "fine."

This is some of the cult of raw stuff that drives me nuts. "Sure they look fine, but they're not really fine." Whut?
What? I'm now part of the raw feeding cult? Awesome, thanks for the laugh I just said I feed my dogs kibble and give them things like veggies, fruit, and mac and cheese. But okay then.

And yes- some dogs do look "fine" but they aren't really "fine." Just because a dog has a shiny coat, decent teeth, and has energy doesn't mean that they couldn't look better on a different food, or that everything is "fine." The owner of the dog may have to bathe them often to remove the greasy film from their coat. They may just be a dog with better teeth genetically.

Who knows- the dog on Ol' Roy could look WAY better on Fromm and the dog on Beneful could really thrive on raw. There are kids who eat McDonalds and pizza everyday who look "fine" too.

My parents toy poodle was on a great kibble and always had ear infections. His coat still looks the same on raw, but his ear infections totally cleared up. So again, a dog that looks "fine" isn't always fine IMHO. If that puts me in a raw feeding cult, so be it. I'd like to join the high quality kibble cult too, please, as I agree with feeding BOTH of these.

However, we are BOTH giving anecdotes in this situation so like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Quote:
I'm not sure how we can disagree about something that I am personally experiencing and you aren't. Essentially you're telling me that dogs I think look fine, aren't actually fine because... I'm not really sure why to be honest, other than it doesn't validate your opinion. My raw fed dogs and my kibble fed dog look pretty much exactly the same to me, which tells me that they are all "fine."
You're doing the exact same thing. I see many dogs as well, and the ones fed crappy foods do not look fine to me. Glad to hear that YOU think they look fine, but it doesn't invalidate MY opinion. Obviously we have differing ideas of what we think is fine and what isn't.
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Last edited by ~Jessie~; 10-10-2013 at 01:48 PM.
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  #49  
Old 10-10-2013, 01:45 PM
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Ehh, I'll agree with Jessie on the "dogs fed low quality dog food don't look good" front. All of my friends' dogs eat Ol Roy/Pedigree/Dog Chow/ similar brand, and every single one of them feel gross. I hate petting them, because their coats just feel greasy and nasty. Sure their coats may be shiney, but I'm pretty sure it's from all the grease. The ones whose coats don't feel gross feel that way because they're given baths all the time.

Finn looked great when I adopted him. Good weight, decent muscle tone, but his breath was rank and touching him left that greasy residue I was walking about. I switched him to Wellness CORE and now he looks so much better, even though I thought he looked great before. Maggie on the other hand, was eating a good food, but my mom switched her to some cheap grocery store brand, and now she feels disgusting and her coat looks awful. My cousin feeds her dogs good food, and they all look and feel great.

I know this is all just anecdotal evidence, but of all the dogs I know personally, I find it interesting that literally all the ones who eat the traditonally bad food are gross feeling and have bad breath, and all the ones who eat traditionally good food (none of which get bathes regularly) have silkly fur and no odor.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:53 PM
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Ehh, I'll agree with Jessie on the "dogs fed low quality dog food don't look good" front. All of my friends' dogs eat Ol Roy/Pedigree/Dog Chow/ similar brand, and every single one of them feel gross. I hate petting them, because their coats just feel greasy and nasty. Sure their coats may be shiney, but I'm pretty sure it's from all the grease. The ones whose coats don't feel gross feel that way because they're given baths all the time.

Finn looked great when I adopted him. Good weight, decent muscle tone, but his breath was rank and touching him left that greasy residue I was walking about. I switched him to Wellness CORE and now he looks so much better, even though I thought he looked great before. Maggie on the other hand, was eating a good food, but my mom switched her to some cheap grocery store brand, and now she feels disgusting and her coat looks awful. My cousin feeds her dogs good food, and they all look and feel great.

I know this is all just anecdotal evidence, but of all the dogs I know personally, I find it interesting that literally all the ones who eat the traditonally bad food are gross feeling and have bad breath, and all the ones who eat traditionally good food (none of which get bathes regularly) have silkly fur and no odor.
This is exactly what I've seen. I always regret petting dogs on low quality foods because they leave this nasty film on my hands.

I feel like a broken record, but I really do believe the foods that we (and our pets) eat play a big role in how we look and feel.

My dogs get baths probably every 6 months, and I've gotten nothing but compliments on how "clean" they always look. Even when we fed kibble, it was the same way.
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