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  #11  
Old 07-21-2013, 11:10 AM
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BostonBanker BostonBanker is offline
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I certainly didn't expect to change many opinions on the service, but I figured I'd throw that out because it is something I wouldn't have thought about, and it did change my willingness to use BowWowFlix. My friends laugh at me because I still buy my music off iTunes instead of recording it off YouTube. We all have limited money to spend on our dogs and sports (some more than others!) and we each are free to use it as we see fit. The online classes are such a crap shoot for me (hated Recallers, love my Agility University class), I hate to see any one medium for sharing training information start to disappear. It's so individual as to what works for each person, the more ways to get information out, the better!
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  #12  
Old 07-21-2013, 01:18 PM
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The YouTube video downloads will go the way of limewire, the music industry has more money to fight with than dog trainers.


I never really thought about the issue though, fwiw I appreciate it.
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  #13  
Old 07-21-2013, 01:56 PM
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I don't think it's fair to compare this to youTube downloads(which I don't do either FYI).

I'm paying to rent a video. The maker of the video was commissioned when the video was bought and they absolutely should get royalty every time it gets rented. I also pay them when I take their classes, buy their books and encourage other to do the same. Plus if I decided I want to have the DVD on hand all the time and buy it.

It is kind of unfair for trainers to say they won't make DVDs anymore if they can be rented. Books can be rented, movies can be rented, college text books can be rented, CDs can be rented, cars can be rented, any type of sports equipment can be rented. I shouldn't be forced into only being able to see a DVD if I buy it. Again, I am PAYING to rent I and I FULLY believe they are entitled to royalties off of that. So again, when I am supporting them in so many other ways and I am not illegally downloading their work why should I feel guilty about renting a DVD title?

If they are not getting their royalties, then I would support them in a lawsuit to get their royalties but I will not support the idea to completely end renting.
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Old 07-21-2013, 02:53 PM
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The way I see it (in my own mind, where things like guilt fester with abandon), it isn't that I'm doing something wrong or illegal by renting the video, but I'm supporting a business that is essentially stealing from the trainers. If there were a service that rented videos and paid royalties to the trainers, as I assume 'regular' movie rental services do, I would have no problem supporting them. *This* company doesn't (or at least didn't; to be fair I haven't paid attention to it lately) do that. So I won't support them.

I like a lot of the trainers I've met and worked with as people. I've watched them drive off in beat up cars with ridiculously high mileage, watched them try to (again) patch up their RV to get through another season. Their jobs require them to keep trialing and traveling and training so that they can stay current and relevant. Most of the ones I know aren't getting rich. And I doubt many of them have the knowledge or money to initiate a lawsuit, so they find other ways to generate income.

I know this comes across as "you should feel guilty!", and I can't figure out how to make it not sound that way. I'm sharing my thoughts because, like I said before, it never would have occurred to me until I heard trainers saying how much it was affecting their income, and how it made them not want to put out more DVDs. So, I share my thoughts in case others aren't aware of the issue. Like I said, I'm not expecting to change everyone's minds, but for those to whom it matters, I feel like they should be aware.
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Old 07-21-2013, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpaeanx View Post
I don't think it's fair to compare this to youTube downloads(which I don't do either FYI).

I'm paying to rent a video. The maker of the video was commissioned when the video was bought and they absolutely should get royalty every time it gets rented. I also pay them when I take their classes, buy their books and encourage other to do the same. Plus if I decided I want to have the DVD on hand all the time and buy it.
AFAIK Bow Wow Flix doesn't give any royalties to trainers. They pay for however many copies of the DVDs they buy and that's as much as the trainers see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xpaeanx View Post
It is kind of unfair for trainers to say they won't make DVDs anymore if they can be rented. Books can be rented, movies can be rented, college text books can be rented, CDs can be rented, cars can be rented, any type of sports equipment can be rented. I shouldn't be forced into only being able to see a DVD if I buy it. Again, I am PAYING to rent I and I FULLY believe they are entitled to royalties off of that. So again, when I am supporting them in so many other ways and I am not illegally downloading their work why should I feel guilty about renting a DVD title?

I know Denise Fenzi has said she is not interested in making DVDs because people rent/copy them so freely that it just isn't worthwhile. Competition dog training DVDs are a small niche market, so it's hard to really compare them to the likes of major motion pictures or cars or what not.

I'm not saying you shouldn't rent the DVDs, just that it is what it is. I signed up for Bow Wow Flix once mostly because I wanted to watch SG's DVDs while I was in Recallers and I really didn't have the money after paying for Recallers to also buy the DVDs. But I promptly cancelled my subscription because it became obvious that I might pay have to make many monthly payments before any of the DVDs I wanted to watch became available. I don't really have time or attention span to sit around and watch a bunch of random training DVDs that might be interesting while waiting for the handful of DVDs I actually wanted to see. IOWs for me, it wasn't really much of a bargain - those popular titles by popular trainers are often rented out with really long waiting periods.
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  #16  
Old 07-23-2013, 04:08 PM
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Just wanted to add that I bought Dave Munnings second DVD yesterday and it shipped from Clean Run this morning. I liked his first DVD so much, and his attitude in general from his posts and videos on YouTube and such, that I decided to buy the second DVD too. So I will post my thoughts on that one too as soon as I get it and watch through it (early next week maybe.)


Often the DVDs are expensive, but if you look at it from the perspective of how much does it cost for these instructors to hire a company to film, create, produce the DVDs, then actually manufacture them and get them distributed... and the fact that they are distributed to a pretty small audience... I don't really think they're price gouging or anything. Excepting the above and one more DVD (I bought Success with One Jump off Amazon using some gift cards) I always ask for them for Christmas, because I can't really afford them either. By forking over the cash for Turn-Me, I'm accepting that I might not be able to buy groceries next week, as it happens. I've got quite a little collection now and they are all from people buying me the DVDs for Christmas over the last several years. Clean Run also offers some DVDs as a watch on-demand type of thing for a cheaper price, and I did that once and would consider it with other DVDs too... but they don't have the option on anything I want to watch now. =P
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  #17  
Old 07-23-2013, 06:20 PM
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I had excellent experiences with Silvia's class. I find her comments to be to the point, and very observant. I also find her to be supportive and encouraging. I was enrolled as a repeater in the last set but didn't submit too much because I've been busy with other trainings and classes, which is my loss, but out of all the online classes I have taken, Silvia's are by far, the best.

I own most of Silvia's DVDs, I like watching her train more than listening to her explanations. The timing, energy and placement of rewards, her set ups (teaching cik/cap inches in front of a tunnel entrance, for example), etc, I found very useful.

I find the key thing to succeeding in Silvia's foundations course is to not rush and let your dog get very confident with each step before moving on. For most dogs that doesn't happen in the 3 week per lesson time unless you are training every second day and you have a motivated and mature enough dog. Her repeater rates are very fair and you can get a lot out of her coaching if you just post a lot. I find she is tougher on her repeaters and people she develops a relationship with, and I appreciate that because I don't like paying $$ to be told that something looks good/ok/whatever.

What I like about her, too, is that she will answer and watch whatever you are working on, even if it is outside the lesson plan. You can video other set ups, things from your other classes, or courses when you are competing and she will watch them and comment. You can also pick what you want to focus on - you can use the class to focus on contacts and weaves for example, or just cik and cap and baby sequencing, or motivation and forward drive, whatever you are working on. At least, that has been my experience with her :-) What I also do with all the classes I take is keep a word document of all the bits of advice she gives to me and other people that I think could be useful to me or students, etc. There's LOTS of brilliance in the comments but you have to do your reading, and when the classes are pretty full, there is a LOT of reading.

I am a fan of the DVD because, well, she used some of my footage of male malinois Wiley :-) (who she calls Willy). Even in the DVD she mentions in her commentary while my clips play the stuff that I am doing wrong, and a couple years ago I would of been mortified that this is forever going to be in peoples homes, lol, but now I can smile, be proud of the compliments, learn from the tips and hope that it helps others :-)
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