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  #21  
Old 05-04-2013, 01:36 PM
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Dizzy Dizzy is offline
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Honestly, if a dog is bought to help someone with a disability, mental or physical, then it is a service dog... That dog should be able to go with them where they need it, it's not a pet or a companion if its offering a service. Whether it brings their socks, guides them to a toilet or just offers them security and reduces anxiety.

I do believe that should be regulated though. How, I'm not sure. I think it's more about proving you need the dog, rather than what the dog does, and having the dog trained to be acceptable in public.

Whether that's for a child or an adult.. Meh.

If the dog is helping, it's helping.
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2013, 01:50 PM
Brattina88 Brattina88 is offline
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I am not sure what you guys are arguing about, maybe I am misunderstanding maybe it depends on your area? Are you saying a child can not have a service dog, period? or just children with autism?

There are children (and I'm talking about anyone under the age of 18, I know an 8 and 10 year old through the woman who puppy raised the now service dog) and more here with service dogs who go out into the general public, whether it be for epilepsy, Autism, a physical disability, whatever. I think a major goal in a child's life is for them to grow up and be independent, so they can be very successful in life. Children are like sponges and they can learn how to live and care for a dog, with adult help, too. I watched a child regain focus and 'switch' from an "autistic moment" (her words, love this little girl! lol) to functioning typically on a field trip with some deep pressure task, body blocking, guiding her away from the majority of the crowd, from their dog. It was something the teacher or aid could not have done. If the teacher would've put her hands on her it wouldn't have went over well.... in my personal experience/opinion it was a field trip that otherwise that child would've had to stay back from and not be able to go. Very over stimulating. But it worked and I think that's amazing.
I went to high school with a kid a year younger than me in a wheelchair, with a service dog. So where is this invisible line? What age or which disorder or disability?

And I had also heard of someone around here who's service dog was paid for with insurance. (I wonder if its the same person Joce? lol)
and correct me if I'm wrong but with many meds, procedures, etc around here if the doctor words or codes it a certain way many things can be coverd by insurance if its deemed medically neccisary.

And I hope that everyone who reads this understands I am not trying to be snotty, I am genuinely asking because I want to learn sorry for any typos - I'm on my phone
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2013, 02:22 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Quote:
Are you saying a child can not have a service dog, period?
There is NO REASON for a 2 year old to have a service dog. Ever. Period. I said earlier that for older children it can be done right (it can also be done wrong). Once the CHILD is capable of stewarding the dog, it has the potential to work out. But the child should be stewarding the dog, not the other way around.



Quote:
Honestly, if a dog is bought to help someone with a disability, mental or physical, then it is a service dog
No, it isn't. This isn't a matter of opinion. Honestly. This is a matter of law. In the US the legal definition of a service dog is:

Quote:
Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the personís disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.
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  #24  
Old 05-04-2013, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
There is NO REASON for a 2 year old to have a service dog. Ever. Period. I said earlier that for older children it can be done right (it can also be done wrong). Once the CHILD is capable of stewarding the dog, it has the potential to work out. But the child should be stewarding the dog, not the other way around.





No, it isn't. This isn't a matter of opinion. Honestly. This is a matter of law. In the US the legal definition of a service dog is:
So legally you can't have service dogs to help with mental health problems (eg anxiety etc)?
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  #25  
Old 05-04-2013, 02:27 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
So legally you can't have service dogs to help with mental health problems (eg anxiety etc)?
Yes, you can. Read the definition again. BUT the dog has to be trained to do something that actually helps. Just being there is not a trained task. Picking up keys is only a trained task if your disability prevents you from picking up keys. Pulling wheelchair is only a task if your disability had made it necessary to use a wheelchair. And a mental health conditon isn't enough to qualify for a service dog. You have to be disabled by that condition. Tons of people have a mental illness. Most of them are not disabled by it.
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  #26  
Old 05-04-2013, 02:50 PM
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AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
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I don't know where I said a child gains independence from a dog?

I don't know if the kid, under the age of sole caregiver, who has a medical alert dog is wrong for those on this forum but I assume the parents don't care when the dog is bettering or saving the child's life.
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  #27  
Old 05-04-2013, 02:55 PM
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LauraLeigh LauraLeigh is offline
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Just out of curiosity, what about seizure alert dogs? I would think they could benefit very young children in a way no human ever could?
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  #28  
Old 05-04-2013, 02:58 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Originally Posted by LauraLeigh View Post
Just out of curiosity, what about seizure alert dogs? I would think they could benefit very young children in a way no human ever could?
Seizure alerts are not trained, and not all dogs are able to alert. It's a total crapshoot. You get a seizure response dog, and hope it has or develops the alerting ability. If it doesn't alert, it still helps by doing response work. Even dogs that DO alert need to be trained in response work to be legally considered a service dog. A young child/toddler does not need a seizure response dog because their parents should be taking care of the seizure response. In school, the staff there should be taking care of response work.
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  #29  
Old 05-04-2013, 02:59 PM
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And I know this is not law it seems, but if a dog helps calm someone who would be debilitated by fear or anxiety, just by being there, I'd like to see that person able to take that dog everywhere, even if it meant changing the laws... In my opinion anyways, and as a non disabled, non service dog handler take that for what it's worth... It's simply an opinion
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  #30  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:02 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Originally Posted by LauraLeigh View Post
And I know this is not law it seems, but if a dog helps calm someone who would be debilitated by fear or anxiety, just by being there, I'd like to see that person able to take that dog everywhere, even if it meant hanging the laws... In my opinion anyways, and as a non disabled, non service dog handler take that for what it's worth... It's simply an opinion
If the dog was trained to the same standards as a service dog, and the law allowed for it, then that would be okay with me. But until the law changes, an emotional support animal is not a service dog and does not belong in public. If those who would benefit from public access ESAs want the laws changed, then they need to make that happen! Service dog activists made laws change (to tighten the definition to include dogs only), if people are determined enough to make the laws change then they have the power to do so. But until that happens, it's still illegal.

On the flip side, though, tasks are the easy part. Surely, for those who just want public access ESAs, there is something they can train their dog to do that would help mitigate their disability. Which would then make it a service dog and legal. The hard part is finding a temperamentally stable dog and training it to behave properly in public. So for that reason, I don't think the law NEEDS to be changed. It's also a concern that people tend to pick dogs that react to their own anxiety instead of staying rock solid, and a reactive dog like that is a BAD IDEA for a service dog/public access, and may be bad for the handler's treatment plan in general.
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