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  #31  
Old 03-14-2013, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilter View Post
I think the odds are higher that a mixed breed dog is going to have some issues, vs. a well bred dog from a responsible breeder.
Ding Ding Ding! That's about it. Purpose bred mixes that are health tested have a pretty good chance of being healthy as well. In the rare instance that a responsibly bred health tested purebred has a whoops with another responsibly bred health tested purebred, those mixed puppies are pretty likely to be healthy too. Most times they're from BYBers or descended from puppymill stock though.

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Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
If hybrid vigor is what you're trying to get at, it doesn't work like that. That's hybrid vigor when species are crossed. All breeds of dog are the same species. It's not like breeding a horse and a donkey and getting a mule that can outperform both its parents.
This too.

Also, purebred =/= tightly linebred or inbred. It's a strategy utilized by some breeders, but isn't universal. You can also find inbred ill bred mixes due to irresponsible owners not keeping mixed intact siblings and parents separated or bothering to get them neutered.

When breeding purebred dogs, you can preserve genetic diversity while still breeding for type by doing assortative matings. Basically phenotypic outcrosses. Kaia's breeder keeps each litter's inbreeding coefficient under 10%. Kaia's litter had a COI of 0.6%, yet was amazingly consistent and high quality.

This is a really good article for anybody that breeds or wants to learn more.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1950109/

Wikipedia does a pretty decent job explaining assortative mating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assortative_mating

Now you must suffer through the consistency of nine, nine week old puppies with a 0.6% COI. Muahahaha.









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  #32  
Old 03-14-2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Chrome View Post
IMHO GSDs have just as many health issues as other breeds. They ate not like you seem to think they are, these unhealthy horrible health riddled dogs.
Again, I don't know why you think I think GSDs are "unhealthy horrible health ridden dogs"?? I'm using them as an example because they were the breed discussed that sparked this thread - and any other popular purebred could have sparked the same discussion. I did say there is a myriad of health problems found in the breed, but the same is true of the majority of common dog breeds. I don't have any conception that GSDs, either found in rescue from unknown health backgrounds, or from a responsible, health-testing breeder, are going to have more health problems than any Golden, Boxer, Shih Tzu, Cocker Spaniel, etc. from a comparable breeding.

If you're getting ANY purebred dog (or a dog that is largely one breed) from rescue, I'm going to recommend you look into common health problems in that breed and look into a vet evaluation. I'm not sitting here targeting and picking on German Shepherds because I think they're all horribly unhealthy.
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  #33  
Old 03-14-2013, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Raegan View Post
Pet insurance companies charge a higher premium for purebred dogs than mixed breed dogs because purebred dogs are statistically more likely to make use of insurance.
More likely to make use of insurance does not mean less healthy, however.

Statistically women are more likely to make use of health insurance than men; would you say that means women are less healthy than men?

Same thing with BMI charts, interestingly enough. BMI charts are based on what is lowest risk for an insurance company, NOT what is actually healthiest.

Oh insurance companies and your statistics. <3
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  #34  
Old 03-14-2013, 09:24 PM
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Unfortunately, bybers have introduced so many poor quality 'purebred' animals into the gene pool that the general public really has a skewed view of a purebred dog. Too often, the average person thinks that every lab or GSD has dyplasia, every spaniel has ear problems, or every Dalmation is deaf.

I'm sure it's been mentioned, but I do think that a mixed breed dog has a higher likelihood of being healthy than a poorly bred purebred, purely from a recessive disease standpoint.
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  #35  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:56 AM
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This is a really fascinating topic to me but I know next to nothing about genetics.

Where do pariah type dogs fit in to this? People were asking about what specific type of mix-breeds, so what about say, a Carolina dog or Mexi dog that hasn't been purposely bred for generations and has had some natural selection at work in its lineage?

I was always of the opinion that they were healthier, but as was mentioned before it could be a misconception from lack of research and testing.
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  #36  
Old 03-15-2013, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyxa View Post
This is a really fascinating topic to me but I know next to nothing about genetics.

Where do pariah type dogs fit in to this? People were asking about what specific type of mix-breeds, so what about say, a Carolina dog or Mexi dog that hasn't been purposely bred for generations and has had some natural selection at work in its lineage?

I was always of the opinion that they were healthier, but as was mentioned before it could be a misconception from lack of research and testing.
Not just some natural selection. Almost all natural selection. Same thing with the africanis, azawakh, and dingos. Azawakh are EXTREMELY inbred with a very very limited genepool. The only health problem that occurs in the breed is a mild form of epilepsy. That's the only problem the desert couldn't select against.

Hundreds, sometimes thousands of years of some of the most extreme environments on earth culling everything but the strongest, most efficient, disease resistant, and smartest did a lot to refine the gene pool in those cases.

ETA: They're not really comparable to companion-bred mixes here in the US. Maybe if companion-bred mixes went feral, and lived unassisted for 40 generations or so you'd start to get something consistently healthy. An awful lot of the first few generations of dogs would die off really fast though.
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  #37  
Old 03-17-2013, 01:34 PM
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This is strictly speaking from my own personal experience, and people can take it for what it's worth, but:

Mutts in my experience have always been healthier and have out lived pure breds, even those pure breds who were from reputable breeders. The healthiest most sound dog I've ever known in my life was my grandmother's mixed breed whatever, who lived to the ripe age of 22 before he finally passed away one night in his sleep a few years ago. The worst health problem he had was miner arthritis due to old age. The sickest dog I've ever met was my best friend's champion GSD, who was riddled with arthritis at age 2, and was put to sleep by age 6 due to severe hip dysplasia and it's inability to even walk without being heavily drugged.

I've come across healthy pure breds and I've come across sickly mutts as well, but 9/10, the situation described above seems to be the norm for what I experience the most. And I've experienced quite a bit in my life.
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  #38  
Old 03-17-2013, 02:49 PM
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And I have had the opposite in my life. Our mutt cost us thousands more in vet bills, in the first 3 years, then my purebred Shibas from good early healthy stock did in 15 years.

Same for my parents, our old multi-generation mutt barely made 13 years, and had several health problems. He wasn't a big dog either, he was 35lbs, so size wasn't an issue with him, he just wasn't healthy. On the flip side their Shiba came from the same lines as mine and lived to 16 years.

The biggest difference is that our purebreds came from healthy dogs. Would I get a Shiba now? Not without a bitch load of research into lines and health testing because North America has seriously effed them up!
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  #39  
Old 03-17-2013, 03:26 PM
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Over the years I've come to feel like there is kind of a "danger zone" for some of the pure breeds around... oh, 8-10 years or so. Where some of the really catastrophic illnesses that are common in certain breeds tend to pop up. Like, lymphoma, hemangiosarcoma, or osteosarcoma in breeds where they are common. But, if they make it past that hump they often seem to live forever.

Mixed breeds, on the other hand, it just seem to be all over the board when something might happen.
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