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  #21  
Old 03-13-2013, 05:15 PM
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When you say a mixed breed, what do you mean?

A cross B? Or multi generational mix of all kinds?

To me they are very different.
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  #22  
Old 03-13-2013, 05:21 PM
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Even if we're talking about f1 crosses (1st gen) the issue is that a lot o the breeds you see crossed do share similar issues. Especially in the realm of small designer dog types. I think you could probably definitively say that mixes as a whole would have less incidence of x problem. But it would be hard to say they are overall healthier. I have a hunch that responsible bred mixes could be he healthiest type of dog overall. But then again I changed my major from genetics to mathematics for a reason. There is not much real data out there
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  #23  
Old 03-13-2013, 06:12 PM
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I think the odds are higher that a mixed breed dog is going to have some issues, vs. a well bred dog from a responsible breeder.

As a rule, the responsible breeder is not only going to health test the parents, but they are going to select mates for their girls based on a lot of factors - often conformation is one of those. While that might not work for some extreme breeds like GSD's, in most cases that means the offspring are going to have pretty good conformation, no straight fronts or lack of angles, extreme cowhocks or east/west fronts and so on. So the dog is built better and will be more stable. They are also going to educate their puppy buyers on risks - things like not taking their 12 week old pup behind the car to tire them out, or allowing the pup to leap off the top of the deck and fly, and put down carpets if they have a lot of slippery floors. Feed better food, not corn based cheap stuff. Minimal vaccines, not whatever the vet says. On a 'bad' note they're more likely to place pups in homes that can afford to rush to the vet for things and so find more issues, and may require owners to get xrays done of their dog to check for problems.

The byb mix breeder isn't going to say 'sheesh, this female didn't pass her health testing' or 'her front is too horrible to want pups like that' and breed regardless - to whatever has the man parts and is interested. Even if that dog doesn't have HIS clearances or has a worse front, or no rear - if he's got dingleberries he's in. So more likely to have a conformation nightmare that will break down in the long term. They sell to whoever and don't educate, so you see that pup being dragged behind their owner going jogging at a young age. Dog is vaccinated by a vet without questions asked, so often is given a lot more vaccines. Food is what they see at walmart on sale. But they aren't going to spend much on the dog because it wasn't an expensive puppy, so while it limps here and there and gets snarky, it's not taken for a workup, it's ignored, dumped in the yard or taken to the shelter and handed over and that's that.

In general. Yes, there's lots of 'but's' but I see that a lot of times where the mixed breed buyers do things quite differently than someone who invests in a purebred. The puggle down the road was taken with the bike on laps around town from the time he was quite young, the purebred GSD across the park, he just started doing a bit of jogging with his owner at 2 - she doesn't take him on marathon runs up the highway though (she goes 22 KM sometimes).
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  #24  
Old 03-13-2013, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinsbt View Post
Even with an unusual condition which is limited to one breed, it only takes one crossbred to spread it into the mixed breed population.

Take L-2-hydroxyglutaric aciduria (L2-HGA), which is a very unpleasant neurological disorder in Staffords. It's an autosomal recessive, so it's method of inheritance is simple, you just need to have 2 carriers match up. We have a test for it, so we can identify the carriers.

On a Stafford forum, one poster told us that a dog of his breeding which tested as a carrier had been used in a cross-breeding. I don't know why, but what that means is that the pups of that breeding will not have L2-HGA, but there's a 50/50 chance that they carry it. If they carry it, there's a 50/50 chance their progeny would also carry it. And so on, until one of those carriers breeds with another carrier. Could be that they're related several generations back, or it could be a separate incidence of the condition entering the mixed breed genepool. Either way, it's entirely possible that a mixed breed dog could have that condition.
Exactly this, yes.
Mixed breed doesn't mean "no genes remaining from the "purebred" genetic history, and especially not the bad ones!" If the basset hound carrier in your example is bred to a mixed breed who at any point had a carrier basset introduced to his genealogy and he is still a carrier, that dog is just as likely to result in a dog with Thrombopathia as if you bred two "pure" bassets who were carriers.
Unknown health history means unknown healthy history... no matter the breed. You might ask what the odds of that are - that's going to depend on a LOT of factors and will be different for any given situation. But ultimately, in a broad sense just talking generic "mixed breed" versus generic "purebred," your gamble is the same.
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  #25  
Old 03-13-2013, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Chrome View Post
Von Willebrands is not common on GSD. Just want to clear that up.
I'm really curious as to how accurate this is. I've always heard it listed as something common in GSDs (and a number of other breeds). The AKC Canine Health Foundation says they are a breed where Von Willebrands is prevalent. Looking into it further, it appears many of the organizations who suggest testing for it are involved with the companies that perform and distribute the test...in general, the breed clubs don't seem to recommend it. There are tons and tons of studies done on Von Willebrands in GSDs, but they seem to focus more on specific gene pools.

I'm not saying you're wrong, because I don't know that much about it, but what do you have to back up the fact that it's NOT common in GSDs?
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  #26  
Old 03-13-2013, 07:21 PM
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I will respond better on my computer. As a Breed, it is not common. Maybe in specific lines but not as a collective breed group. That's from talking to.breeders, looking at OFA etc.

IMHO GSDs have just as many health issues as other breeds. They ate not like you seem to think they are, these unhealthy horrible health riddled dogs.
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  #27  
Old 03-13-2013, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
Well and you don't hear about consistent health problems in mixed breed dogs. 100 mixed breed dogs are probably (in my experience anyway) going to have a different distribution of health problems than 100 golden retrievers, or 100 westies, or 100 bichons, or 100 whatevers.
I can't really formulate words at the moment lol so I'm just going with this.

Many breeds have specific health issues that are associated with them. Going with what I know, boxers - most of the time it's "oh, better watch out for cancer/heart problems". Mixed breeds don't have that association so maybe it just gives the perception that they're "healthier". I think a poorly bred mix is no different from a poorly bred purebred, just as much of a crapshoot and just as likely to be plagued with health issues. Or not! You just don't know.
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  #28  
Old 03-14-2013, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinsbt View Post
On a Stafford forum, one poster told us that a dog of his breeding which tested as a carrier had been used in a cross-breeding. I don't know why, but what that means is that the pups of that breeding will not have L2-HGA, but there's a 50/50 chance that they carry it. If they carry it, there's a 50/50 chance their progeny would also carry it. And so on, until one of those carriers breeds with another carrier. Could be that they're related several generations back, or it could be a separate incidence of the condition entering the mixed breed genepool. Either way, it's entirely possible that a mixed breed dog could have that condition.

Out of curiosity, has that happened in the UK? Staffords there are like Pit Bulls here, so I imagine there are tons of Stafford mixes.
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  #29  
Old 03-14-2013, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stafinois View Post
Out of curiosity, has that happened in the UK? Staffords there are like Pit Bulls here, so I imagine there are tons of Stafford mixes.
I don't know if any mixed breeds have wound up with L2-HGA yet, but it's really only a matter of time if they haven't. I didn't mention it in my example, but that took place in the UK. There are a lot of Stafford crosses in the UK, and the L2-HGA was pretty widespread in the breed (the big concentration was in dogs descended from one popular stud, who proved to be a carrier, but tests show it in lines that aren't related for many generations back), so sooner or later....

Thing is, with a mixed breed, I don't know if anyone would think to test for the L2-HGA. So even if it's occurred, it might not be found.
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  #30  
Old 03-14-2013, 02:14 AM
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More heterozygousity is associated with a more robust animal. Mixed breed dogs are. more likely to be more heterozygous than purebred dogs.

Pet insurance companies charge a higher premium for purebred dogs than mixed breed dogs because purebred dogs are statistically more likely to make use of insurance.

I have heard Ted Kerasote's new book comes down on the side of mixed breeds living longer, but I haven't read it yet. But the subtitle is "the search for longer lived dogs" so I think it might be relevant.
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