Bringing a puppy home on a plane

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#41
As opposed to what, letting her end up with a dog that she wouldn't like/had health problems/was the result of unethical breeding/ect? Give me a break!

I for one welcomed recommendations with open arms both for and against the breeders I had in question. I'm not afraid of my choice but I want to be fully informed and that includes information from people both for and against the breeder(s) in question.

Still, I can see why she hesitated. Finding a good Koolie breeder in some people's eyes is like finding a needle in a haystack. I like who I picked but it took some serious give and take (and lots of money) to find the right one.
There's a difference between sharing information and berating someone for choosing a breeder you (general you) don't like. And being harassed by an angry group of one specific breeder's lackeys? Yeah, that's pretty f***ed up. And the group that goes around spreading vicious rumors and attacking anyone who dares choose a breeder other than one approved by them? Sadly, they don't seem to realize that by spewing their poison, they are actually hurting the breed.
 

SaraB

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#42
As opposed to what, letting her end up with a dog that she wouldn't like/had health problems/was the result of unethical breeding/ect? Give me a break!

I for one welcomed recommendations with open arms both for and against the breeders I had in question. I'm not afraid of my choice but I want to be fully informed and that includes information from people both for and against the breeder(s) in question.

Still, I can see why she hesitated. Finding a good Koolie breeder in some people's eyes is like finding a needle in a haystack. I like who I picked but it took some serious give and take (and lots of money) to find the right one.
She did welcome opinions with open arms and then made her decision from those opinions. Some people just weren't happy with her decision and continued to criticize her after the fact. They said their piece before, leave it at that. Nobody likes to be criticized.
 

SaraB

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#44
As opposed to what, letting her end up with a dog that she wouldn't like/had health problems/was the result of unethical breeding/ect? Give me a break!
How do you know she wouldn't have been happy?? She had spoken to at least two people with his dogs (me and Linds), we are both extremely happy with these dogs. Have you met a dog from this breeder? Have you heard of them having health issues?

Funny part is, most the dog community sees right through people who belittle other breeders. You should be able to convince people how great your breeder is by just talking about that specific breeder, not going around bashing every other breeder. It really is just sad when people do that.
 

Sit Stay

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#45
To go after someone who has already put her name on a litter and been planning on getting a puppy for a year now is so terrible. It just makes me so incredibly sad. This wasn't an inexperienced dog owner asking for opinions on breeders. Devan is an intelligent dog owner who did the research, talked to dog owners, met some dogs and was sure in her decision. Do you feel proud you ran someone off not only her breeder, but the breed? It's disgusting, and people like this are fooling each other if they think they're helping the breed in any which way.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter. Devan, you are one of my favorite people on here and I'm so excited for you, and sorry you've been through this.
 

Gypsydals

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#46
I'm sorry Toller that some people just couldn't be happy with your choice. I think its pretty crummy that people have to belittle and harass other peoples choices. Makes me leary about sharing any information on a future puppy because of this. Its one thing to share information about a breeder and his dogs but its entirely different thing to continue to beat it into a person.
 

Shai

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#47
The line between sharing information/concerns and harrassing someone is really not that fine. Too bad folks tend to ignore it anyway. I'm sorry you had to deal with the rabid mob, Toller, but very glad you were able to find a solution that will work out best for you.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#48
I'm a bit confused, someone shared their (probably nasty and possibly unfounded) opinion of a breeder and this they alone are to blame for the puppy buyer pulling out? Was a gun involved? Last I checked we're all adults and it was the puppy buyers choice to buy what she felt was right.

I pulled out of a border staffie breeding right before Backup and it was due to my opinion of the breeder (unfortunately I found no alternatives either) and not the fault of some bully calling me names for buying a purpose bred sport mix.

I am sure it is hurtful that Van and many others knock the lack of health testing and, well I'm not in the know enough, whatever else, but surely we can't be blaming a puppy buyer backing out because of online harassment? If that we're the case that puppy buyer probably isn't what you want anyways, if they felt, in their hearts, this was the perfect dog and breed for them they wouldn't let someone online sway them.

Or am I missing the entire point?

PS, I really hope it's a Belgian(out of pure bias), I need baby photos and yet want nothing to do with another one myself, yet. lol
 

SaraB

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#49
I am sure it is hurtful that Van and many others knock the lack of health testing and, well I'm not in the know enough, whatever else, but surely we can't be blaming a puppy buyer backing out because of online harassment? If that we're the case that puppy buyer probably isn't what you want anyways, if they felt, in their hearts, this was the perfect dog and breed for them they wouldn't let someone online sway them.

Or am I missing the entire point?
You are missing the point. There is a lot more to it than simple not health testing (currently there are NO koolie breeders that health test). The point was that she made an educated decision and then was bullied for her decision. They had already told her all the bad stuff about the breeders, and she chose to against their opinions and was then harassed for it.

ETA: I am not knocking her at all for choosing not to get this puppy. I told her from the very beginning that it is a tough decision to make because of the moral ideals of breeding. I am happy that if she wasn't 100% with the decision that she backed out, however I'm very saddened that this is the why it came to be. I am very saddened by the divide in the c/koolie community and what that is going to end up doing to the breed that is just under development on this continent.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#51
Harassment sucks, really. Did you let it stop you? Or did it stop Linds?

I'm all for damming harassers but I must be confused because it appears this post is blaming the backing out on harassment. Is it not a valid argument that if you do not handle the nay sayers, valid or not, possibly you shouldn't have said breed?

In pit bulls we say it all of the time, can't handle hatred and harassment and denial of housing, insurance, etc then you should not invest yourself with this breed. Do we want more qualified, capable, sane, and devoted owners? Of course but not at the sake of having them get their dogs and find themselves miserable with baggage.

I would venture this is more about a puppy buyer who knew the bad and then after harassment (which should be invalid and taken as white noise if not given by a trusted source) decided to change their investment.

Maybe, again, I'm reading it differently but having backed out of a puppy and having had people back out of my fosters before after more breed research I just see it as two separate issues. It sucks that she was harassed, no matter what, but I'm not sure it's a more valid reasoning for the puppy not being bought, verses maybe it wasn't a great fit after all?
 
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#52
ETA: I am not knocking her at all for choosing not to get this puppy. I told her from the very beginning that it is a tough decision to make because of the moral ideals of breeding. I am happy that if she wasn't 100% with the decision that she backed out, however I'm very saddened that this is the why it came to be. I am very saddened by the divide in the c/koolie community and what that is going to end up doing to the breed that is just under development on this continent.
Yep, yep. It's hard when you suddenly find yourself in this 'Us vs Them' reality and you're one of the 'them'. It's hard when you get attacked for a decision you carefully made and end up feeling like you can't even share the happy moments with your online friends.

I went through this with Didgie. Luckily, I was completely secure in my decision because I had already made the leap and gotten a dog that was the epitome of what I wanted. I was content. But had what happened to me happened before I was in the breed? I could see potentially being frightened away by the hate.

I'm incredibly sorry Devan went through anything like this. I know I personally would have supported her decision to go with any breeder she chose no matter my personal feelings on them because I know she's an adult who did a fabulous amount of research including taking a vacation and meeting some of the dogs in the breed. I'm sad others didn't feel the same. I'm sad there is this much of a split in the people of the breed when there isn't even a breed split. And I'm sad Devan was made to feel like it was easier to leave the breed than get a dog.

But what I am happy about is that she didn't let any of this stop her from getting a puppy and I can't wait to see pictures of whatever little girly girl she gets!
 

stafinois

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#53
Why is there a divide? Why do they single out your breeder choice?

I'm just curious. If nobody health tests and everybody breeds Merle to Merle, why do they not like this one? It seems weird to an outsider.
 

SaraB

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#54
Why is there a divide? Why do they single out your breeder choice?
That's what we are trying to figure out and that's what Linds and I are trying to mend.

No Adrienne, I didn't let it stop me. I'm not Toller. I also didn't get it so bad because I stayed away from that group of people from the beginning because I knew how they were. The point is, it's a small breed, a very small community, there shouldn't be a divide. There are literally a handful of dogs on this side of the world. If I heard that someone was bringing in new blood, I would be so happy. However, that's not the case and I feel like Linds and I are the only ones that can see the devastation that can cause a breed, the things it's already causing.

This thread has already derailed so much. Please, if anyone wants to continue this discussion, PM me or Linds about it.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#55
Sounds like I really don't grasp how internally messy the breed is, I can understand hesitancy about joining in. I'm sorry, but luckily it sounds like the dogs are very worth it for those already invested.
 
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#57
Sounds like I really don't grasp how internally messy the breed is, I can understand hesitancy about joining in. I'm sorry, but luckily it sounds like the dogs are very worth it for those already invested.
Especially when they're all cuddled up to you on a cold morning. I like them best then. Not moving and mouths closed
 

Shai

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#58
Harassment sucks, really. Did you let it stop you? Or did it stop Linds?

I'm all for damming harassers but I must be confused because it appears this post is blaming the backing out on harassment. Is it not a valid argument that if you do not handle the nay sayers, valid or not, possibly you shouldn't have said breed?

In pit bulls we say it all of the time, can't handle hatred and harassment and denial of housing, insurance, etc then you should not invest yourself with this breed. Do we want more qualified, capable, sane, and devoted owners? Of course but not at the sake of having them get their dogs and find themselves miserable with baggage.

I would venture this is more about a puppy buyer who knew the bad and then after harassment (which should be invalid and taken as white noise if not given by a trusted source) decided to change their investment.

Maybe, again, I'm reading it differently but having backed out of a puppy and having had people back out of my fosters before after more breed research I just see it as two separate issues. It sucks that she was harassed, no matter what, but I'm not sure it's a more valid reasoning for the puppy not being bought, verses maybe it wasn't a great fit after all?
The way I'm reading it is that folks are upset that the harrassment took place at all, not that they believe it was The Reason for Toller deciding to pursue a different litter. And disappointed that their breed lost out on a good owner, but in a general sense that respects Tollers' decision as being hers alone.

I mean if I found out someone was harrassing a potential FCR owner well after the recipient had clearly made their decision and/or asked them to stop...I'd be upset whether I agreed or disagreed with their points. Whether the potential owner decided to go through with the pup would be irrelevant and entirely their own decision.

...I really hope that makes sense!
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#59
The way I'm reading it is that folks are upset that the harrassment took place at all, not that they believe it was The Reason for Toller deciding to pursue a different litter. And disappointed that their breed lost out on a good owner, but in a general sense that respects Tollers' decision as being hers alone.

I mean if I found out someone was harrassing a potential FCR owner well after the recipient had clearly made their decision and/or asked them to stop...I'd be upset whether I agreed or disagreed with their points. Whether the potential owner decided to go through with the pup would be irrelevant and entirely their own decision.

...I really hope that makes sense!
That definitely makes sense, I read more blame into it than there appears to be.
 

Gypsydals

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#60
The way I'm reading it is that folks are upset that the harrassment took place at all, not that they believe it was The Reason for Toller deciding to pursue a different litter. And disappointed that their breed lost out on a good owner, but in a general sense that respects Tollers' decision as being hers alone.

I mean if I found out someone was harrassing a potential FCR owner well after the recipient had clearly made their decision and/or asked them to stop...I'd be upset whether I agreed or disagreed with their points. Whether the potential owner decided to go through with the pup would be irrelevant and entirely their own decision.

...I really hope that makes sense!
:hail:
 

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