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Old 11-23-2012, 12:36 PM
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Default Breeding Standards

There's been a lot of talk about breeders and breeding lately. I'm curious about a couple things...

1) If you have not bred, but plan to, what's in your "code of ethics?" Such as, what is the necessary health testing, necessary titles, whatever else that you WILL NOT compromise on for your dog, and/or the stud dog?

2) If you have bred a litter, did you end up compromising on anything? And for what reason?

I've been hearing more and more about unilaterally or bilaterally deaf dogs from breeds that aren't "prone" to deafness. For that reason, I feel like I'd do a BAER test on any dog I might be breeding.

Also, I consider an eye exam part of a "healthy dog/yearly wellness" thing. I guess I'm lucky enough for it to be under $50 and within an hours drive.

Our CHIC for springers, which is new, is more in depth than many breeds' and there's a few required tests that some people never thought of as being important in the breed; like elbows. And there's one that I never really gave much thought to, which is the DNA profile (proving parentage--ASCA is miles ahead of the AKC or UKC on that one).

What are things I wouldn't budge on (as of now)? Hips, elbows, eyes, BAER, DNA profiled.
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:42 PM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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I am beating myself up about this right now. I will not breed a dog that is not health tested (hips, elbows, eyes, cardiac). Zinga is getting her hips prelimed soon, so that I can pursue breeding options more confidently.

We all know breeding options in koolies are slim to none. As it is, I have few options and both are not ideal. I will not breed merle to merle, so that slims things up even more. I may have to compromise on one thing or another to make this happen but I will not do so lightly. Luckily, I have a while before anything will happen, but I'm looking at options now.
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SaraB View Post
I am beating myself up about this right now. I will not breed a dog that is not health tested (hips, elbows, eyes, cardiac). Zinga is getting her hips prelimed soon, so that I can pursue breeding options more confidently.

We all know breeding options in koolies are slim to none. As it is, I have few options and both are not ideal. I will not breed merle to merle, so that slims things up even more. I may have to compromise on one thing or another to make this happen but I will not do so lightly. Luckily, I have a while before anything will happen, but I'm looking at options now.
Do you HAVE solid stud with health testing options?
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:50 PM
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Do you HAVE solid stud with health testing options?
Nope. I can do AI from a stud in Australia without health testing (pros: know the personality and know structure/working ability, cons: no health testing, can't meet the stud in person). Or I can import a solid male puppy either by myself or find someone to co-own with (pros: health testing, know in person. Cons: might not turn out the way I want, cost).

So that's the pickle I'm in. Working through it, have my eyes on a few things. Taking my time and hoping everything works out.
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:04 PM
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Interesting statistics (and why I love the CHIC)... There are 91 pugs with CHICs, only 40 of them have passed all required tests. That means people are PUBLISHING NON-PASSING results! That's kind of a big deal.
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:10 PM
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1) If you have not bred, but plan to, what's in your "code of ethics?" Such as, what is the necessary health testing, necessary titles, whatever else that you WILL NOT compromise on for your dog, and/or the stud dog?

I require my own dogs and any dog they are bred with to have the bare minimum of Hips & Elbows OFA'ed (or PennHIP) and eye's CERF examined. I also require a Herding instinct test not necessarily as a title but if it's not a title I would like to observe the test myself OR be allowed to see a video recording of the test that was given to evaluate the dog. I would also allow retesting to be given at a later date, not all dogs turn on to stock the first time out.

On my own dogs I also test for MDR1 mutation and HSF4 mutation


2) If you have bred a litter, did you end up compromising on anything? And for what reason?

I have not yet bred a litter but I had to compromise with the purchase of my intended foundation bitch. I bought her with the knowledge that she would carry one copy of the hereditary cataract gene by parentage. Her pedigree was worth that compromise at the time and her structure and temperament as she has grown has confirmed for me that that compromise was worth it. The dog she is to be bred to is clear of the hereditary cataract gene so I will at least be breeding away from it.
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringerLover View Post
Interesting statistics (and why I love the CHIC)... There are 91 pugs with CHICs, only 40 of them have passed all required tests. That means people are PUBLISHING NON-PASSING results! That's kind of a big deal.
Unfortunately they're probably still breeding from the non passing dogs. Though most pug breeders don't test at all and breed far too young dogs.
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:15 PM
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Unfortunately they're probably still breeding from the non passing dogs.
And that I don't really have an issue with. I'm quite aware that the healthy pug genepool is absolutely tiny. Miniscule. It's huge that they're testing, releasing results, and then hopefully making appropriate decisions based upon those results.

Not every dog has to pass every test all the time, but the right stud needs to be chosen then to reduce the risk of it continuing to be passed on.
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Old 11-23-2012, 06:46 PM
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1) If you have not bred, but plan to, what's in your "code of ethics?" Such as, what is the necessary health testing, necessary titles, whatever else that you WILL NOT compromise on for your dog, and/or the stud dog?

Health testing - hips, DNA for CL, CEA, and TNS testing for both parents, eyes CERF at least once before breeding and then every few years for life (the big issue with borders is more the CEA, many breeders don't do CERF at all but because of other breeds being in a pickle, plan to test my own dogs for life just in case). Tossed on Elbows for many reasons.

Titles - some, or working on some, but mainly if I don't know the dog myself and what they're like. I wouldn't breed to a dog for looks per say without some working titles of some sort, but then again, if it's a nice, correct dog and has produced really nice dogs, then I might. I could for example breed to a really nice show dog in the future, but he has no working titles at the moment. But it's more possible since he's nearby that I could go meet the dog in person, play with him and see what he's like too. It's just one part of the picture, depends on pedigree and everything else. Not going to breed to the stud of the week because everyone else is.

Overall it's the big picture, what the dog is like, what he's produced, what health testing he's had done, that sort of thing. At this point my 'long term' plans may be to have two very different types of dogs, breeding to a working line dog first, then to a more 'show' dog, then seeing what turns out and then what's out there. There are some dogs I'd steal in a heartbeat if I could too, and I'd love to have something that goes back to my first boy, but not sure if it's even possible or realistic (but oh, it would be nice). Or I may find I don't like what's produced and scrap and start again, that's sometimes tempting from what I've been told.

So far I've run into the 'do you have a puppy now? We can't possibly even read any information or wait a day, we're going to find the first person who will give us a puppy in a walmart parking lot' and the 'give me a urine sample because we wont' support a breeder who eats meat and you'd have to prove you are a vegan, also we will move into your house with you to watch the pups grow and tell you how to do it all then pick what we want and you have no say' people. Really hoping I find some middle ground before I go nuts, and I have a year to wait too!
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:05 PM
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I'm pretty flexible. I believe the stickler for perfection in every sense is detrimental, of course people can take that to an extreme as well which can be a negative as well.

I used to believe the dogs must be without fail perfect in every way before being bred, I realize that isn't doing any favors to diversity of the gene pool.
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