Good grief

I heard the neighbor man telling a small child to knee his dog that is 2/3 the size of the child in the belly when it jumps on him.

There is so much wrong with that I couldn't even begin. If the child raised a knee to this dog he is going to hit it about in the penis. Hows that for the start of totally screwed up thinking. Ignorance is not bliss.

Oh wow! That kind of thing just irks me no end. Don't you feel like going over and saying something, like "there are better ways to teach a pup. I can show you if you like." *big smile.* Ugggggg. I would find it so hard to contain myself.

He is a self proclaimed dog trainer,......

I hear this kind of advice all the time.. there are plenty of videos on youtube promoting it
How does this even teach the dog what you want them to do?

Aren't they all?

I dont think it's a big deal. It's his dog.... as long as he's not doing it too hard it shouldn't hurt him.

I would never ever teach a child to in any way touch a dog with anything but careful respect. THe child is so short that to do this to the dog (an intact dog) puts him in great risk of hitting the wrong area, and a child might just kick and not knee. The child was under 6 yrs old, and to top it off, it was not his child. IT is an agressive move and I do not believe in children being taught that this is the solution. It could also promote an attack. It just makes me so sad, it's risk that isn't necessary. Dear old Man train your own dog, don't teach children to do it. Teach children to not hang out around dogs that are not in control of themselves and to recognize when the dog is not trained and know how to appropriately conduct your self in a manner that does not get you knocked down, run over or bit. I think it is a big deal and will speak with the parents of the child this evening.

I think it's a big deal too. To teach a child to mistreat an animal is beyond stupid. Not only is it horribly unfair to an animal, it's putting the child at risk. Who knows what tolerance level some dog will have in the future that this young child comes in contact with? There are dogs that will not put up with something like that, whether it's hard or not and the child could get his face ripped off.

IF the child does this to this dog, and it doesnt' bite his face, what are the chances he will do it to a dog that might respond differently? In the training that Victor and I got when we were suppose to go into the school district to teach recognizing dog language to help reduce the bite rate, the first thing the child is to do is to assess if the dog is in control of himself, if an adult is in control of the animal and ask. Then not to just take a yes as an answer but to look for big eyes, for stance, then they are taught how to approach. Also to make like a tree or a rock if they believe the dog is coming after them. A tree if teh dog is only passing by, a rock if the dog is coming for them. If the dog in anyway seems out of control, do not approach. End of story. THe last thing you would ever do is say now lets hurt the dog, so it doesnt' jump on you.

Your acting like the old guy told the kid to beat the **** out of the dog.... weird.

Mutts, it is an aggressive and, in my opinion, abusive move to teach a child. You never have to hurt an animal.

I find your thinking..........weird.

I remember when I was younger that a knee was considered a normal way to prevent a dog from jumping up. Not saying it was right or wrong, just normal. The theory was that if the dog runs into your pointy knee it will hurt/be uncomfortable, and the dog won't want to do it again. It's a type of natural consequence - I jump up : I hit hard thing : I don't jump up.

Now this is raising a knee, not kicking or actively hitting the dog with the knee - it's letting the dog hit it while it is up. Doesn't work well with dogs who are too big/small of course. But this is an "old school" method that I remember well when I was young. It was also never intended to be used against aggression - only jumping up by "known" dogs.

I would not, however, ever suggest teaching it to a young child. The child couldn't possibly be coordinated enough to do it properly, nor would the child have the strength and balance to not fall over. Then of course add in the safety issues around aggression... Well, not a pretty picture.

Hmmm... I do wonder that with over 100 posts you haven't yet noticed or read anything on this forum about how people tend to feel about ignorant and potentially dangerous training techniques.

How about that dog takes a disliking to being 'nudged' in the stomach and rips the child's face off?

Or the child tries that on a strangers dog?

Or... need I go on.

There are a million and one other ways to deal with a dog jumping up. Some very, very easy ways that don't require any force at all.

Seriously? Aside from the colossal idiocy of telling a kid to basically kick the dog, did you read the original post? The guy told the little kid to knee the dog - didn't say anything about not hitting the dog too hard. How many little kids do you know who have the same amount of self-control as an adult - enough to know if they're hitting/kicking too hard?

An adult (and I'm using the term lightly) giving a kid the idea it's 'okay' to kick animals if they get too close is a recipe for disaster, (and guess who will pay the price for a defensive bite? Yup, the dog).

Since you don't seem to care about the dog, what about the kid? That small? Standing on one foot in preparation to kick/knee the dog? Guess who's gonna get flattened, and probably bounce his skull off the pavement? Not the dog...

Mutts, watch this video if you're interested in finding out the facts...that you can teach dogs without intimidation, discomfort, without risking them losing their trust in humans which makes them less into training and learning, makes them not particularly fond of working with their owners, and can cause all kinds of other side effects that you may not be aware of and certainly, people like this neighbor isn't aware of. There is simply no need to raise a knee so they run into it, finding out that it's uncomfortable to approach humans OR kicking or any other form of intimidation or punishment.

After you watch the short video, let us know what you think.

http://zomobo.net/play.php?id=lC_OKgQFgzw

Worse than the actual you know.. teaching that is ok to hurt/use pain to train a dog..

Kneeing your dog when he jumps does NOT teach your dog what you want him to do instead.
I have met many dogs trained this way..and let me tell you.. they find really creative ways to greet you once they have been trained using knee hits

such as..
- Jumping at people from the side
- Jumping straight up and barking away from knee distance
- Jumping at people from the back
- Barking and just being a nuisance
- Jumping on people while using their knees as leverage with their paws (which is a really cool one to see.. admittedly lol)

Point is.. why not just teach your dog (who obviously is just doing this because it WORKS and gets them attention..good or bad)
that sitting (or however you want them to greet people) is what you want them to do and is a MUCH more effective way to get the attention they want

Absolutely. Good post Fran. See the video I posted. That's a perfect demonstration of how to teach your dog what TO DO. Not what not to do. Infinitely more effective. No comparison whatsoever. Anyone who resorts to things like knees to the chest or any other intimidation tactic in the name of training is woefully incompetent as a trainer.

It's wasted energy, dizzy. All (or at least most of) their posts is crap like this

If an old guy said to the kid "kick" the dog when it jumps up, I would be worried. He simply said knee him. Or do you expect every kid to be bringing their clickers and dog treats everywhere.
I don't think the guy meant any harm.
No the kid shouldnt be kneeing every dog that it sees. Nor should it be feeding the dog and clicking at it lol.
If this childs parents never taught him not to associate with strange dogs then that's their issue.

Freehold-- did you or anyone else get mauled or bitten because you kneed a dog? No.... didn't think so.