Competing While in Heat

I'm actually not aware of anything, either. I just was riffing off on a tangent about the assertion that normal everyday life puts the same kind of stress on joints as sports do.

and I don't think sports mimic "real life" either, other than if a dog is able to handle the stresses of training and competition, being in heat shouldn't change that. If they're going to be injured or are prone to injury, I think it's the same no matter what time of year it is.

Ok? Originally I responded to your original assertion that heat is irrelevant to sports because animals don't get a break from real life during heat/pregnancy by saying that sports are nothing like real life. Which apparently we agree on?

If you want to have a discussion about whether heat even affects joint laxity or whether a properly conditioned dog is susceptible to injury regardless of where they are in their cycle, then that's a different discussion. But that's not what the original comment or response was about, don't change the goalposts in the middle of the game.

ahh, Ok

I think we had a misunderstanding more than me moving any goalposts.

You asked this


my answer, I don't think it matters. I don't believe joints are any more lax in heat than at any other time of the years. I think it is a myth that females in heat have loose joints compared to other times of the year. I don't believe it is more dangerous while they are in season.

That should clear things up. I worded my original assertion poorly.

and speaking of moving goalposts, I wasn't the one that said

I've yet to actually see research done to this effect, in fact, iirc there is data suggesting that this is incorrect. I'll have to dig up the study.

I think BIS wearing panties, going last, sitting/downing on a mat, maybe even being crated separately, all make sense. Excluding them across the board seems dumb to me.

A number of my sports have venues that allow BIS: IPO, barn hunt, UKI agility (by the decision of the host club - my local trials all allow BIS). Obedience trials are often held in conjunction with conformation shows that allow BIS, so while they may not be in the ring, you can be sure the scent is floating about.

Small n (9 dogs), but "Although oestrogen and progesterone levels changed significantly throughout the oestrus cycle, neither statistically nor clinically significant changes in hip laxity were observed."

(Hassinger KA, Smith GK, et al. Effect of the oestrus cycle on coxofemoral joint laxity. Veterinary Comparative Orthopaedics and Traumatology. (F.K.Schattauer Publ.) 1997;10:69-74.)

This is totally off topic but is UKI the UKC's version of agility?

No, UKI is a new venue meant to mimic European agility more than other US venues.

No. It is UK Agility International - totally different venue.

That is the procedure in at least one venue, though I can't remember which now. Maybe it was lure coursing?

I think they should be allowed to compete in most sports (except perhaps comp obe with the group stays, especially out of sight) and that a little bit of sense and responsibility on all sides would go a long way.

Ye, UKI does.

Sassafras and SpringerLover (who you quoted) are two separate people. As far as I know.

OR ARE THEY

What are you two hiding.

Admit it. Squash is actually Gabby wearing a polar bear suit.

They probably are, I should pay more attention to who I'm talking to I guess.

and regardless, it doesn't really matter, that's the quote that started this topic that I was then accused of taking of course by someone that wanted to cherry pick a statement then derive a completely different meaning than what was intended.

I don't see how saying heat cycles don't affect joint laxity when asked about heat cycles and joint laxity is "changing the goalposts" :lol-sign:

I believe in some sports and venues it's not a huge deal. Others, much more so. I competed in a confo show with my 11 month old male, and lost in the ring because he tracked for a split second and the judge was a stickler. Guess what was in the ring beforehand and not cleaned up after? You got it, a female in heat.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a male to obey and not lose his head around girls, but to expect him to completely not react to something like that, I believe is unfair. He's a dog and he was sniffing. Barely broke stride. But if affected our performance and I was not happy.

The problem with "that dog goes last" is that I assume it means "last in the class". There's another class that starts just a few minutes later in agility.

My other concern (and maybe it isn't valid, I'm not really around intact females much) is - is there actual leakage? I'm assuming so, since people use panties. We have more and more trials in the area being held on indoor turf (usually soccer fields that aren't used in the summer, so they rent them), and they can be very, very protective of what is allowed on them. Most have a "no liquids other than water" rule, and some have a "no food other than dog treats" rule.

I think what would be a good option would be for it to be made optional for clubs, as in UKI. It would allow clubs/trials to really see what the financial benefit may (or may not) be. If they draw in more people by allowing dogs in heat vs losing people who don't want to deal with their dogs being distracted by it, I think more clubs would start allowing it. And it might let people who have some concerns see if it is actually going to be a big deal. If it isn't, more people would be supporting the idea.

All I know is that when I'm on my period...last thing I would wanna do is sports. lol but I guess dogs aren't the same in that aspect

It's not leakage, it's spotting, unless your bitch has been OSS'd, in which case there's generally no spotting either. Panties have no issue keeping anything from ending up on equipment or flooring, hence why they may be required (in Barn Hunt and Nosework for ex.).

Yep leakage. (I see dripping as leakage, a leaky faucet can simply be dripping occasionally and still be leaky) More or less depending on the dog and what stage of heat they are in.

I just can't see it working with agility. And I wouldn't want a dog dripping on my rubber crumb covered table (for example, if I had one lol)

I think it should be fine in sports if they could wear panties. The obedience club I used to train with was totally find with bitches in heat as long as they wore panties. All of the distraction and none of the mess

I have no problem with allowing bitches in heat to compete in pretty much any sport. Its largely a training issue. But part of the reason its such a big distraction, IMO, is there's never an opportunity to train through it. The majority of female dogs I know are spayed. If they're not, the owner pulls them from class when they're in heat. I've been in classes where bitches in heat were banned from class.

If you're never given a chance to train with that distraction, I think its overly flippant to say "its just a training issue" when that's a very specific, chemical and biological distraction that I don't think you can reasonably expect a dog to generalize about. I would be pretty pissed if my dogs first exposure to bitches in heat was at his first obedience trial.