Police / army dogs (of any discipline) are they safe?

Romy

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#21
The sniffer dogs my uncle trained for WA state were all really stable and friendly. It wasn't unusual for the dog to find something, sit next to the find (sitting was the trained cue to let the officer know it'd found something) and then happily let the perp with the drugs pat it on the head. He worked with labs though. His dogs all retired to homes with families and sometimes kids when they were done working too.
 

Pops2

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#22
My personal experience has been that all military dog are unsafe. I can't speak for the civilian police dogs, but EVERY military mal & most GSDs ive met have bitten their handlers in a redirect. All have bitten other people (me a couple of times) in redirects. I would categorize them all as unsafe for the vast majority of owners.
 
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#23
This is interesting...I've seen detection dogs work at large city train stations, and also detection dogs for non-military/police work like bed bug and cancer detection dogs. Both groups have contained pretty "normal" appearing dogs of a variety of breeds, mainly shepherds, labs, and beagles.

But our local police department's narcotics detection dogs are SHARP. They're all Malinois or GSDs, and they are extremely intimidating. Observing them off-duty...if I saw a dog like that in a shelter, they'd get a red-flag to only go to a very experienced, active home with no children...if I'd feel comfortable adopting them out at all as non-working dogs.

But I think those dogs are trained in both detection and protection work. If I recall correctly, I saw one young female mal do a demo where she found a bag of marijuana before anyone could blink, then ran back and did some bitework in a flash. I imagine they're all trained like that.
I've had a number of people tell me, of various values of trustworthiness, that detection dogs are all crack heads for a tennis ball. It almost seems that detection dogs are more "drivey" and aroused than patrol dogs. They certainly have less control placed on them.

I've seen some Randy Hare videos for training detection dogs. It's cool training.
 

Hillside

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#24
I know more dual purpose dogs than I do single purpose. Maybe it just depends on the area? I know of one dog that was at first tracking/apprehension only. They did eventually train him to do drug detection.

The other dog is a detection dog. He was trained to do both live and HR finds and search for drugs. I think his alert was different depending. I only met him once.

Though, most k9's I know are working at jails and prisons. They're dual purpose because their handlers aren't willing to work inside these places without a dog who WILL bite in case things get ugly in a cell.
Weird, it probably does depend on the area then. Most of our pd/sheriff's dogs are mostly single purpose.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#25
My personal experience has been that all military dog are unsafe. I can't speak for the civilian police dogs, but EVERY military mal & most GSDs ive met have bitten their handlers in a redirect. All have bitten other people (me a couple of times) in redirects. I would categorize them all as unsafe for the vast majority of owners.
I would argue that your definition of safety is vastly opinion based and far to broad.

My dogs have redirected on me and last week in Bitework Sloan got over excited and nipped Denis' stomach when held back, it's something we deal with and move on. To write them off as unstable or unsafe is rather short sighted.

Outside of working dogs I had a schnauzer nail me today at work when grabbed in pursuit of another dog, here we call that impulse control and bite inhibition, we don't really write off dogs with damning labels.
 

Pops2

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#26
I would argue that your definition of safety is vastly opinion based and far to broad.

My dogs have redirected on me and last week in Bitework Sloan got over excited and nipped Denis' stomach when held back, it's something we deal with and move on. To write them off as unstable or unsafe is rather short sighted.

Outside of working dogs I had a schnauzer nail me today at work when grabbed in pursuit of another dog, here we call that impulse control and bite inhibition, we don't really write off dogs with damning labels.
I stand by my opinion, military dogs are too dangerous for the vast majority of dog owners.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#27
The inference that they have potential for danger with mismanaged handlers is valid, to label a dog that redirects at some point for some reason as unsafe is incorrect and endangering.
 

Romy

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#29
I've had a number of people tell me, of various values of trustworthiness, that detection dogs are all crack heads for a tennis ball. It almost seems that detection dogs are more "drivey" and aroused than patrol dogs. They certainly have less control placed on them.

I've seen some Randy Hare videos for training detection dogs. It's cool training.
That's definitely true. When my uncle would go evaluate prospects one of the biggest things they looked for was dogs with that kind of ball drive. Thunder was safe around kids... unless you threw a tennis ball into a crowd of small children. They'd be liable to get trampled. :eek:
 

Red Chrome

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#31
Judge has a beautiful out on a sleeve or toy, a bit possessive but a nice out.

That said.....
When we had the home invasion and he got a live bite, he was choked off, for one, I couldn't have remembered how to out him if I had wanted too(adrenaline, fear etc.) for 2...he just wasn't letting go. He did let loose to regrip but he re gripped and held and shook. He has been trained to bite and hold, that is exactly what he did. A real life scenario with adrenaline and fear etc. is a whole different ball of wax than playing a sport on a sport field with toys. IMHO- just because a dog has to be choked off a bite in a certain scenario doesn't make them unsafe. Let me tell you, I have a new appreciation for the K9s and their handlers. I will tell you, in the situation me and my dog were in, I did not want him letting go, I imagine it is the same in their situations most of the time.

I've had working dogs redirect on me in certain situations, my own dog included. A little redirect doesn't mean the dog is unsafe or unstable IMHO.

FWIW- In my area, most of the K9s are Dual Purpose and all are VERY stable dogs. Well controlled and some even semi social.
 

Pops2

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#32
The inference that they have potential for danger with mismanaged handlers is valid, to label a dog that redirects at some point for some reason as unsafe is incorrect and endangering.
In the cases of my being bit they were not in action nor in training it was pure excitement because we were getting ready to go out on a patrol. That is too much drive to bite to be safe in the hands of the average dog owner who lacks the knowledge & vigilance to handle them.
 

Aleron

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#34
I would argue that your definition of safety is vastly opinion based and far to broad.

My dogs have redirected on me and last week in Bitework Sloan got over excited and nipped Denis' stomach when held back, it's something we deal with and move on. To write them off as unstable or unsafe is rather short sighted.

Outside of working dogs I had a schnauzer nail me today at work when grabbed in pursuit of another dog, here we call that impulse control and bite inhibition, we don't really write off dogs with damning labels.
One could also argue that dogs who regularly get so over aroused that they nail their handlers or the guys their handlers are working with are sort of counter productive in real life working situations. I'm not saying all dogs who have ever redirected aren't safe but if it's a regular problem, that seems to me that it would make the dog a huge liability.

The breeding, training and selling of police dogs is a business so it's not unlike any other business. Some come from very reputable sources and some don't. Some have extremely good handlers...and some don't. Some have stellar training...some don't. There are certainly k9s out there that should have never been trained or sold for that kind of work. Or dogs who have a great aptitude for it but had poor, rushed training. That isn't to say k9s on the whole aren't safe, it just depends.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#35
One could also argue that dogs who regularly get so over aroused that they nail their handlers or the guys their handlers are working with are sort of counter productive in real life working situations. I'm not saying all dogs who have ever redirected aren't safe but if it's a regular problem, that seems to me that it would make the dog a huge liability.

The breeding, training and selling of police dogs is a business so it's not unlike any other business. Some come from very reputable sources and some don't. Some have extremely good handlers...and some don't. Some have stellar training...some don't. There are certainly k9s out there that should have never been trained or sold for that kind of work. Or dogs who have a great aptitude for it but had poor, rushed training. That isn't to say k9s on the whole aren't safe, it just depends.
I don't really believe dogs stay on the force long term if they are seriously harming police officers, that seems financially counterproductive and would likely be dealt with.

I would be interested to hear the scenario and level of bites being sited in this thread.

Like I said, in the first response to the thread, of course there are unsafe dogs in police and military work, whether due to breeding or management, but over all a dog that is unsafe won't last long in most forces.

Additionally, I haven't seen these TV shows (i don't have cable and haven't sought them out online) but I can imagine they make an effort to show the most extreme cases for ratings and even then I would challenge the average viewer to have any true understanding of not only dog language but extreme dog behaviors.
 

Fran101

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#36
Guess it depends on who is holding the leash.

I'd say eyeliner pencils are pretty safe but I almost take my eye out every day trying to use mine :rofl1:
 

Flyinsbt

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#38
I don't really believe dogs stay on the force long term if they are seriously harming police officers, that seems financially counterproductive and would likely be dealt with.

I would be interested to hear the scenario and level of bites being sited in this thread.

Like I said, in the first response to the thread, of course there are unsafe dogs in police and military work, whether due to breeding or management, but over all a dog that is unsafe won't last long in most forces.

Additionally, I haven't seen these TV shows (i don't have cable and haven't sought them out online) but I can imagine they make an effort to show the most extreme cases for ratings and even then I would challenge the average viewer to have any true understanding of not only dog language but extreme dog behaviors.
The link that Aleron posted earlier tells of several serious bite incidents involving western Washington police dogs:

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2020474412_k9dogbitesxml.html

Obviously, the media is going to make as big a story of it as they can, so highlight the worst of the worst, but it still shows several incidents of serious bites involving police K-9s. And of interest is the fact that the dogs that are involved in these incidents seem to frequently to have it happen more than once.
 
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#39
If one place is having that many problems maybe it is time to re-evaluate where they get their dogs from and who's training them.

Redirects and unprovoked bites are not the norm. At least from my experience, which is more than 5 but less than 10, dogs certified dual purpose in the past 3 years. I bad nothing to do with the narcotics training though.
 

Pops2

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#40
If one place is having that many problems maybe it is time to re-evaluate where they get their dogs from and who's training them.

Redirects and unprovoked bites are not the norm. At least from my experience, which is more than 5 but less than 10, dogs certified dual purpose in the past 3 years. I bad nothing to do with the narcotics training though.
The military breeds & buys, but they do most of their own training.
 

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