aggressive again

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#1
I posted a few days ago about my border collie/lab mix Sage. I thought she was doing really well with on leash aggression, but yesterday she met a dog she has always lunged at and despite my best efforts she was a lunging snapping fiend again. She really seems to be doing better with dogs she hasn't met, but how do I desensitize her to the dogs she already hates? Also, can this really be turned around to the point where she is friendly with most other dogs? What is the most I can hope for here? I'm getting really discouraged.
 

mrose_s

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#2
Don't get discouraged, buster has the same problem, but in less then a month i was seeing real prgress. I cant offer help i dont know wont make it worse though. So i will wait for other answers and such. hope it gets better.
 
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#3
I think she'll always try to dominate other dogs, and that'll lead to problems with gentler dogs who get upset and tougher dogs who take her up on the invitation to play king-of-the-hill. What I've always heard as the solution is to limit her dog interactions to dogs who are calm enough to put up with bumptious behavior and assertive enough to not be intimidated by pushiness.
 

Athe

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#4
I don't know what other advise you got, all good I assume ;)
What I have done with my dog aggressive Rottweiler is to carry wonderful tasty treats like boiled liver, or hamburg balls, or any kind of boilded meat. I keep it in a pouch around my waste...when I see another dog coming (hopefully I see the dog first)...I immediately start giving her the "look at me commmand" and treat. The closer we get the more praise and treats she gets...my goal is to condition her to believing good things are happening when other dogs are around. When she did spot the other dogs and started lunging, I always tried to coax her back to a look at me command. I tried to always have a laid back attitude, I tried not to tighten up the lead etc. A haltie may also help you as you then have control of the dogs head...don't treat the dog when it's lunging...only treat and praise when the dog shows a laid back attitude or looks at you and not the other dog. Keep in mind at all times that whatever the dog is doing at the time you give a treat is the action the dog is being rewarded for. The behavior is not going to change over night...and some dogs will always be a little dog aggressive just like some people don't like some people and get ticked off whenever they see that person. :) Don't expect any more of your dog than you would expect from yourself or another person...they are not superior to us ;)
 
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#5
Thanks all. Athe, did your Rottweiler imporve with the desensitization? Sage really has been doing well and improving, I think I do expect her to change too quickly though, she does well so I push it too fast and then she is set up for failure. I need to be patient. I really wanted a non aggressive dog but she's so great in other ways, I'll keep working with her. It helps as long as I know there is hope.
 

Athe

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#6
My Rottweiler is not over her dog aggression, she will always have an offensive attitude towards some dogs. I just learned to live with it, I own 4 other dogs which she loves dearly and she has a few playmates she gets along with wonderfully. If I happen to be on a walk and meet up with strange dogs she automatically goes into offensive behavior and lunges...the other dog could show the most submissive body signals which mean nothing to my Rottweiler. I attended dog aggression seminars, worked with an animal behaviorist etc...I use the look at me exercises and counter conditioning which never worked for my Rottweiler...as much as I tried. She either likes another dog or she doesnt. I love her for being her, and I don't put her in situations where she has to repress herself...you will probably have better luck with your dog...it depends greatly on the type of aggression they are displaying...for my Rottweiler it's an offensive behavior, if it's fear related some times that is easier to work with as you can build the dogs confidence.
I have found a few great ways to introduce her to other dogs that worked great for me.
I put a basket muzzle on her before we meet the other dog. We meet on nuetral territory, I let her loose before she sees the other dog...she is so concerned about getting the muzzle off that the other dog has a chance to come up and sniff her...once she realizes there is another dog there she does not have a chance to become offensive and she is more eager to sniff and get to know the other dog at that point.
The only breed of dog my Rottie loves and I can meet on a walk with no issues are Newfoundland dogs :) She just about pees herself whenever she meets a new Newfoundland dog....and she hates Golden Retrievers, she despises them on site :(
I learned to understand my Rottie and Iwork with her issues on her terms and what she can handle. I love all my dogs for their little quirks as it seems to make them more my unperfect buddies... ;)
 

MicFoster

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#7
When we are working with aggressive dogs that need a quicker fix we occasionaly allow the problem to exstinguish itself.

As an example, last night I was working with a very leash aggressive beagle/rott mix (off leash this is a great dog). I started the training session by doing basic obedience work (sits, downs, stays, comes, heel, etc.). After the dog started to tire (takes about 15 minutes of solid obedience work), I brought one of my dogs into the picture (a very confident, well trained shepherd).

Both dogs are introduced on leash, and are kept a foot apart by each of the trainers. Of course the beagle went to his antics of barking and snapping like a maniac. The dogs are kep a foot apart until the beagles stops barking and snapping (this took about 7 minutes...a very long 7 minutes). After the beagle camled down the dogs went there sperate ways and were given 10 minutes to relax. Then we did the same procedure again (this time the beagle mix calmed in about 4 minutes). Then we did it a third time (down to about 45 seconds). The fourth and final time the begal no longer reacted to the dog, and they were allowed to socialize (very closely supervised).

Each day I will do this procedure with a different dog and the beagle mix. By about day 10 there will be little or no reaction to any dog at all.
We have been using this process for about a year and half and have had great results.

The reason it seems to work so well, is that most leash aggression is fear based, and once the dog realizes there is no danger he gets over it. Unfortunately, most people take the opposite approach, where everytime the dog goes into it's frenzy it is removed from the situation. The dogs goal from the beginning is to get out of the situation, and when we make that an option the behavior continues.

I recomend that if you try this procedure you have a pro on hand to help so no mistakes are made. Let me know how it goes.
 
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#8
Remember, too, that sometimes dogs just don't like certain other dogs - just like there are people you just don't like! Don't get discouraged if yours never likes EVERY dog you meet - you don't like every person you meet, after all ;)
 
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#9
Thanks for all the support everyone. I do think I panicked and need to slow down. Sage is doing really, really well in general, she has improved and will improve more. I think you are right, she will always be more of a challenge and more defensive than my golden retriever, and I really need to accept that. My other dog is so passive and loves everyone and I didn't need to work very hard with her, and Sage came as something of a shock. I was hoping that all the hard work would turn her into my golden retriever and that just isn't going to happen. So I have to love her for who she is, which is a great dog and companion but with some issues. The really hard part is every night for years we have gone to the river and walked our dogs off leash, meeting neighbors and friends and socializing and letting the dogs romp, it's our lifestyle and Sage makes this hard, if we just walked her on the sidewalk on leash it would be alot easier. Her issues are not the best match for our lifestyle. But I do think and hope we can get to the point where she can be off leash with some of the dogs, and we'll just have to keep her on leash with some others. I couldn't give her up, I love her too much and it would break her heart. Anyway, we'll make it work, and I have to remind myself of how far she's come in a few months.
 

bridey_01

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#10
My kelpie took a hatred to a harlequin great dane, she would go nuts, foaming at the mouth snapping and roaring. I spent a month working with the owner, desensitizing May to his dog. It was so bad i had to start at the other end of an oval. I would feed her entire ration of food closer and closer to this dog, until she began to associate him with being fed. Even after all the work she wasnt best friends with him, she just would ignore him.
 

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