You make me sick.... (Designer Breeders)

Hi Saintgirl: No it's actually not a touchy subject for me at all. Molly is in fact a cross of poodle/golden retriever and I love her and think she is wonderful. Having said that I would never recommend anyone purchase one. My daughter in law and son were considering getting one because they think Molly is wonderful too, but after reading 2 doodle owners forums and 2 breeders forums I told them they shouldn't. They now have a lovely Airedale pup.

I've been surprised by the number of owners who go through a terrible coat change and the dog has to be shaved or clipped to manage the blowing of the puppy coat. Molly's mother was shaved and now has to be kept that way because the hair didn't grow back the same. Another person I know has to keep her dogs coat very short because it's very curly and mats terribly when it grows in. Their coats are just too unpredictable - so far I've been lucky with Molly as I do not want to have her shaved and prefer the shaggy look. I groom her every day and that is fine for me as I have lots of time to spend on her. Molly is appearing in "Annie" in April and cannot be clipped so I'm keeping my fingers crossed she doesn't have the dreaded coat change as she's at the age it seems to start (9 mos).

I also don't agree with the amount of money charged by the breeders of these mixes. On the breeders forum they discuss what price they charge and it's clear they group together to keep the prices high. I don't think their expenses would be any higher than someone who is breeding purebreds.

Regarding my original post: Pushing your beliefs upon others is the same as pushing your religion as it's something you're passionate about and you believe you know the truth. There's a big difference between educating and forcing your beliefs.

I sure hope for the dogs' sake somebody forces their beliefs that it should be tolerated not for one second. I am afraid i disagree with you here, i do not see that in anyway like religion. It is a criminal act to treat animals this way. If that clearly isn't the obvious, what in the world do u think is? REligion is faith, no one really knows for sure. This is as plain as the nose on your face, you can see it, feel it, smell it, and weep for it. IT is the truth. I personally do not believe that anyone has the right to push their religion on anyone. But for God's sake do you think puppy mills have the right to do this?

My comments were regarding the OP - I do not condone any cruelty to animals.

Thank goodness!

here it is, i knew it was to deal with the dept of agriculture. A person should notify any puppymill activity they see or know about as well as signing petitions and protests.

another qoute from the site


. L&D Farm and Kennel - Arrests, Charges, Dogs Removed
February 29, 2008 | By Admin In Crimes Against Canines, Furbabies in Need of Help, Just Sad , News & Updates, Puppy Mills | Comments(0)
Last week Jackson County Animal Control officers and representatives from the Georgia Department of Agriculture, which regulates dog breeding in Georgia, launched an investigation and shut down L&D Farm and Kennel, a classic puppy mill. The happened after 19 year old Tiffany Butler,of Nicholson, a former employee, filed a complaint about hundreds of dogs were living in deplorable conditions; feces and urine soaked, sick, covered in sores and mange without proper food or

Sorry, after reading the thread through again I realize I should have made that clear. And I enjoyed your story about the woman on the corner selling the pups - that's not pushing your beliefs - it's standing up for a living thing that has no one to speak on their behalf.

sorry i was just confused...i am just a little passionate about the topic and i was very pushy I still have a drawing in my head of her face with that sneer and a big spoon full of puppies. I really need to paint it. Big bold letters the bottom..don't feed the puppy miller.

Sorry Island Dog- I thought your comment had to do with the educating of BYB and millers. Sorry for the confusion!

No problem - l added to the confusion.

I agree

I went online today and saw some pricing for goldendoodles and so on. The pricing I saw was $2500. I emailed my husband in disgust and said they are robbing people!! I don't understand why people are allowed to do this and nor do I understand why ANYONE would pay this. If people wouldn't pay it then breeders wouldn't charge it. These are great dogs and this is a true shame. What I saw one breeder post that charged 2500 and what you got was just silly...some pet food, 1st shots, papers, and ongoing contact with them. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!!

LOL, the OP's emails have nothing to do with education, they are about moral righteousness and judgement. "You make me sick"? Really?

Oodledoodles are hardly the dogs clogging up shelters - they are wildly popular dogs. Everyone I know who owns one loves them. You can't play the shelter overpopulation panic card when dogs are being driven hundreds of miles across the country every day - when dogs are being imported from dozens of countries - to be adopted in the states.

If its really dogs being killed in shelters you're worried about, you should be going after pit bull breeders since pit and pit mixes are OVERWHELMINGLY the dogs living and dying in shelters.

( and even then you get much fewer dogs being surrendered if you address the issue of poverty)

They're hardly a new breed at this point, its been decades and F1 crosses are extremely consistent.

You mostly seem to be upset that they're charging a price you wouldn't pay. We can talk about what contributes to the value of a puppy, what is responsible breeding, what is appropriate early care for puppies, but none of those discussions start with "you make me sick."

The danger of education is that even when presented with the "facts," someone may come to a different conclusion than you.

Holy zombie thread, batman.

Please keep in mind that much of this discussion ended 6 years ago. I will leave it open as it's not a terrible discussion, but please use the timing as a filter for your comments.

Since this was already resurrected, I must say I've been pondering this issue myself. A local GoldenLabra- Doodle breeder to me health tests her dogs for PennHip, OFA Hip/Elbow/thyroid/cardiac and CERF. She charges between $1600-$2500. That seems outrageous to me personally for that kind of a mixed breed, but she is at least testing them?

Would I pay that much? Nope. But am I seeing dogs like hers flooding my local shelters? Definitely not.

I know this is an old thread, but I agree.

I used to feel like the OP did with these 'mixed' and designer breeds. But now? Honestly, as long as the proper health tests are being done and they have contracts and will take pups back so they don't end in shelters, etc, I don't have a problem with them anymore than any other breeder really.

I honestly don't see a ton of doodles in rescue, so when people say "just go get one in rescue!" it's not really that easy. And honestly I see why some people see the appeal. Ex: cockapoos. Almost everyone I meet is pretty consistent as far as temperament goes and most people get them over and over again. If my mom gets another dog and can't find one in rescue that suits their needs, they'll probably end up with another cockapoo too. My step-dad doesn't like the looks of poodles but he is allergic to dogs. Jackson doesn't bother him nor did their old cockapoo, but she didn't look very 'poodle-y' and he liked that.

I will say my grandma's Goldendoodle has a hard time with his hair. The groomer comes every 6 weeks or so but man! he gets matted so easily and it's hard to even realize. She brushes him, etc, but it still... those little curls close to his skin just get really bad.

There was a really interesting blog post awhile back on how breeders SHOULD be charging more for their dogs. Because why shouldn't they be able to make a profit and still be "good" breeders? It had some compelling points, I think it was on rufflyspeaking. I'll see if I can dig it up.

Side note: the F1 crosses are consistent now? I didn't know that! Would love to see some more info on it though, I've talked a lot of people out of doodlewhathaveyous because the ones in this area are extremely inconsistent.

Inconsistency is my favorite answer for why doodles will never be a breed. After grooming some horrendous coats I was perusing a doodle forum to see how enthusiasts maintain them I found that inconsistency seems to be a "feature". The doodle people were delighting in how adult size, color, and coat type are so unpredictable from one puppy to the next. Apparently it's impossible to tell from the puppy coat whether the dog will be a low-shed or a power shedder, how curly, wavy, or prone to matting it may be, or even whether the dog will be 50lbs or 100lbs as an adult.

We had a fantastically red doodle puppy at work named Reddy. He has grown up into a pale blond adult.

Just reading this drove me batty, lol. I greatly dislike when coats change drastically from puppy to adult.

The 2 things I always hear when people describe their reasoning for getting a doodle are:
- Coat of a poodle
- Temperament of a retriever

It always made me wonder why if one had such specific requests that they would prefer a mix of so many variables than something more predictable.


But then again, I guess the mentality is that the "best of both worlds" always happens when breeding mixes.

Far more often than that best of both worlds, I see dogs with the undercoat of a retriever and the curls of a poodle, which trap the shedding undercoat and seem designed to mat. They tend to have the uninhibited crazy of the poodle combined with the insensitivity of the retrievers, and the result is inevitably a dumb dog. Seriously, I've met and worked with a bunch of big doodles and they seem to be right up there with scenthounds in terms of intuition and brains devoted to figuring out what people want. A lot of groomers also regard them as dumb.

I love doodles. They seem to stay in a relatively consistent range up here and the families that have them just love them to death. Big sweet exuberant doofuses IME. (Not that I have a type lol.)

I wouldn't call the F1 doodles consistant eityher. The goldendoodle is the hot thing in my town, and we have over a dozen at daycare. We have 40 lb doodles and 90 lb doodles. We have wiry doodles and curly doodles and silky doodles. We have 1 or 2 that are not dumb as a box of rocks. Seriously, they are less biddable then the hounds.

And most of them walk around either shaved or matted messes. Those coats are crazy!

That said, most of them have owners who are crazy about them, and the few who dislike them seem to be the type that would be happier with a pet rock. I don't think another breed would please them either.

I couldnt imagine having one. They take the golden derpyness to whole new levels and never seem to mature mentally. I can see where some people would like that, but it would drive me nuts