Signs of a well socialized dog/puppy
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This. Socialization certainly helps and is super important, but no matter how much you socialize a dog, it won't make a dog with a crappy temperament have a good temperament.
I don't ever think "Oh, that dog's well-socialized" nor do I think "That dog wasn't socialized well." It DOES play a role, but that's NOT what I think about when I see dogs. I just note good/bad temperament. Whether that's a result of genetics or socialization (or both!) is anyone's call, unless they know how the dog was bred and raised.
You're not ever going to socialize Mia into a Summer. Mia's been socialized a ton more than Summer was as a youngster and yet Summer is still the friendly one and Mia is completely antisocial.
I don't even really note good/bad temperament. It's impossible to tell and what is 'ideal' varies from person to person. There are people on here that value different things in their dogs than I do, and that's fine.
I don't even really note good/bad temperament. It's impossible to tell and what is 'ideal' varies from person to person. There are people on here that value different things in their dogs than I do, and that's fine.
This. I do, however, occasionally assume dogs received little to no socialization when they were younger... because, depending on the temperament and training, it shows. To me, there's a difference between a dog who is very friendly and enjoys meeting someone new and a dog who is completely overwhelmed by meeting someone new and doesn't know how to actually greet someone or another dog. I can think of a few dogs who Cali and I steer clear of for that exact reason.
Cali could be socialized with just about everyone on the planet and she'd still be just as excited when meeting someone... however, she does settle down and she does know when to stop. She's more timid when greeting other dogs but quickly warms up to them.
Cali could be socialized with just about everyone on the planet and she'd still be just as excited when meeting someone... however, she does settle down and she does know when to stop. She's more timid when greeting other dogs but quickly warms up to them.
I really realized that socialization wasn't everything with Yarrow. I absolutely did my best with him, but he is extremely timid of strangers - end of story. Of course we keep working on it. But all the socialization in the world couldn't have prevented it (actually, I had to be really careful not to over socialize/push to fast because it backfired).
If the dog is stable and doesn't overreact/ does recover quickly in response to the vast majority of expected and unexpected stimuli, then I assume the dog was appropriate socialized.
For some dogs, that may mean they were never "socialized" in any traditional sense. They just have a rock solid temperament and take everything in stride.
For others, like say a Kim, that may mean they were painstakingly introduced to everything under the sun and worked though myriad scenarios at whatever pace they needed to process it all.
Simplified, but that's how I usually see it.
For some dogs, that may mean they were never "socialized" in any traditional sense. They just have a rock solid temperament and take everything in stride.
For others, like say a Kim, that may mean they were painstakingly introduced to everything under the sun and worked though myriad scenarios at whatever pace they needed to process it all.
Simplified, but that's how I usually see it.
This is kind of how I see it, too.
I have two dogs who were just as well socialized as the other two, but just do no have the same solid, stable temperaments as the other two. They're still good dogs, and I've done a heck of a lot with them, but I am sure the general public (especially with Dance) sees a dog who was not socialized enough. In fact, I've been told point blank that I did a crappy job socializing her and that's all she'll need to be a perfect, friendly dog. Yeah, um, no. Just imagine how she'd be if I hadn't done all that I've done with her... she'd be an absolutely nervy, cowering mess I am certain.
I never look at a dog and think "wow, that person did a lot of socialization with their dog!". I just look at a dog and think "now that's a nice, stable dog" or alternatively, I can generally tell when I dog is just a bag of nerves despite socializing as well.
I have two dogs who were just as well socialized as the other two, but just do no have the same solid, stable temperaments as the other two. They're still good dogs, and I've done a heck of a lot with them, but I am sure the general public (especially with Dance) sees a dog who was not socialized enough. In fact, I've been told point blank that I did a crappy job socializing her and that's all she'll need to be a perfect, friendly dog. Yeah, um, no. Just imagine how she'd be if I hadn't done all that I've done with her... she'd be an absolutely nervy, cowering mess I am certain.
I never look at a dog and think "wow, that person did a lot of socialization with their dog!". I just look at a dog and think "now that's a nice, stable dog" or alternatively, I can generally tell when I dog is just a bag of nerves despite socializing as well.
I can't make out signs of any flesh stuck in their teeth.
Dogs will be what they are going to be to a large extent. Meg quite likely had no socialization; there was no sign that she'd ever been inside a building before being rescued. I expect she lived in a kennel or tied up. She's the sweetest dog on the planet. Gusto has been everywhere and seen everything and had nothing but good experiences since he was six weeks old, and he won't give you the time of day and will move away if you try to pet him.
Dogs will be what they are going to be to a large extent. Meg quite likely had no socialization; there was no sign that she'd ever been inside a building before being rescued. I expect she lived in a kennel or tied up. She's the sweetest dog on the planet. Gusto has been everywhere and seen everything and had nothing but good experiences since he was six weeks old, and he won't give you the time of day and will move away if you try to pet him.
I guess I should have read the responses before answering. Basically a combination of this and my previous post.
It's kind of a "this dog is a nice stable dog" -- I don't know what combination of inherent personality and socialization and training made that dog the dog he is today, but I recognize that it worked for whatever function he is being asked to perform and am glad for it.
It's kind of a "this dog is a nice stable dog" -- I don't know what combination of inherent personality and socialization and training made that dog the dog he is today, but I recognize that it worked for whatever function he is being asked to perform and am glad for it.
Well, I know after having Diesel for a year that he was not well socialized before we got him at one year old. He didn't want people touching him, it took him 3-4 days of being in our house before he would willingly come to us. And then it was only for treats. After a year of taking him many many places, and allowing him to go up to people on his terms his really blossoming now. He will go up to strangers and allow them to pet him, not tuck tail and hide. I will say that he is a stable and has good nerves IMO. He takes things in stride now, he has no problems with new places or situations anymore none of which would have happened if he wasn't mentally stable.
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I was just curious if people could tell whether a puppy was socialized as an adult dog.
My Miz Naughty was very very very well socialized. She's incredibly friendly, outgoing, etc but she's very sensitive to anything out of the ordinary.
It makes me wonder how she'd be had I not worked so hard on her. She definitely has the tendency to be sensitive to sights and sounds, as well as people and dogs who aren't familliar to her.
I can't stop her from stressing out, but what I have done is teach her how to channel her stress into something productive.
My Miz Naughty was very very very well socialized. She's incredibly friendly, outgoing, etc but she's very sensitive to anything out of the ordinary.
It makes me wonder how she'd be had I not worked so hard on her. She definitely has the tendency to be sensitive to sights and sounds, as well as people and dogs who aren't familliar to her.
I can't stop her from stressing out, but what I have done is teach her how to channel her stress into something productive.
I too think more along the lines of "what a great temperament" when I see a very stable, well behaved dog. Sometimes I think that the owner has done a great job with them (not socializing specifically, but it may play a part!).
Quinn was socialized and taken out a ton as a young dog. She is wonderful with kids, people, strange sights and sudden noises. That's just her innate temperament though. She is dog reactive however and I have had comments how "she just needs more socialization" when I've mentioned it to people.
Quinn was socialized and taken out a ton as a young dog. She is wonderful with kids, people, strange sights and sudden noises. That's just her innate temperament though. She is dog reactive however and I have had comments how "she just needs more socialization" when I've mentioned it to people.
I look at the temperament of the dog. Teagan was socialized out the butt and still is, but in saying that she is pretty aloof when it comes to strangers. She won't give them the time of day. Last summer a person we know said to me as Teagan was completely ignoring her (you mustn't of socialized her when she was a pup) I wanted to punch her in the face.
I can take Teagan everywhere with me. Sounds don't bother her, people don't bother her. Pretty much nothing bothers her.
I can take Teagan everywhere with me. Sounds don't bother her, people don't bother her. Pretty much nothing bothers her.
I don't know that I agree that innate temperament is so so much more noticeable/important than environmental socialization. I think they are both important. Granted, when I see a well behaved, friendly dog or pup, my mind doesn't tend to jump to socialization OR genetics. Rather, I tend to think about the behavioral "symptoms" that are staring me in the face (i.e "wow he's so friendly" or "that's a pretty aloof little dog" or "that puppy is skittish!") rather than the cause. I've fostered dogs and puppies, been involved in rescue on and off for years, and had a handful of my own (family) dogs through the years. Each and every dog/pup had his or her own distinct personality and temperament, some have been 'softer,' some more naturally gregarious, some 'harder' temperaments, some naturally wary and aloof of new sights and sounds. I've had the puppy that flipped over on her back and peed whenever you approached her standing up to the puppy that thought it wise to growl and bark and try to chase a horse the first time she saw one.
That said, despite the innate temperamental differences, socialization ABSOLUTELY plays a role. Is there a difference (on average) between the dog whose owner took it out to meet 100 new people and 100 new places before it turned 12 weeks and the puppy who just lived its life alongside the family without socialization time specifically set aside? Maybe, maybe not. But is there a difference between the dogs who lived in a garage for the first 5 months of their life with zero human interaction and those who grew up in a social atmosphere? In my experience, that's a yes to the vast majority of cases. The bolder dogs tend to come around quicker than the softer, more skittish ones, but when the world is entirely new to you, it doesn't matter if you're innately happy-go-lucky or innately a little more reserved... at first, everything is scary.
Do I think Boo was well socialized as a puppy? No, probably not in the way that we talk about it on this board. She shied away from storm drains for the first year that we had her and was scared of the dishwasher opening and closing. Might a bolder dog have taken these little things in stride? Maybe. But even a soft dog who has been exposed to these things (discounting people and other living things to a degree) as a young dog doesn't tend to react shyly to those things that they were regularly exposed to (I put "things" and "people" in different categories, because living things are sporadic and unpredictable, unlike an inanimate object and tend to produce fear reactions for a longer period of time than things that remain constant). That said, I'm also fairly certain that Boo wasn't living alone in a crate for her first three years, because her reaction to most everyday things (wood floors, lights going on and off, the doorbell, the telephone, stream water, concrete, carpet, dog bowls, doorways, etc) were all pretty nonchalant.
That was a pretty long response to a fairly straightforward question, but I guess I just hate to jump to one side of the "nature" or "nurture" debate when there are so so many factors and I think that both play a role. Socialization doesn't have to be in the form of specified daily socialization activities. Socialization to me is just a process of observing and participating in the world so that one becomes accustomed to its happenings. And yes, every TRULY unsocialized dog that I've ever met (solid innate temperament or not) has not had the opportunity to express that friendly innate temperament to the best of its ability, as it might have had it grown up experiencing the world.
I don't think on an average walk down the street that I could tell you which dogs grew up in an average home, versus those who underwent intensive socialization activities. But yes, I don't doubt that I could pick out which dog at a shelter was raised in a home alongside people versus which grew up in the shelter with zero human interaction apart from feeding time. All this regardless of their innate temperament.
As a sidenote - I feel it imperative to mention that I'm talking exclusively about domestic dogs. I've never worked with wolfdogs, coydogs, or any other hybrid and so don't have any opinion on the interaction of socialization and genetics on the behavior of these animals, although I'd imagine it to be very different from an average dog.
I also feel it imperative to mention that "aloof," "friendly," "independent," "cautious," etc. are all good temperamental descriptions that may or may not be influenced by socialization. You're not going to turn an aloof dog into a social butterfly via socialization. That said, I don't think of an aloof dog as a scared dog. I think of it as one that really couldn't give a s*** about most new people. In my mind, there is a HUGE difference between aloof/cautious and unsocialized. And honestly, some of the most socialized dogs that I've met are also some of the least interested in interacting with EVERY SINGLE person that they meet... because after all - if you've met millions of new people, what's one more, really? Just another day really...
That said, despite the innate temperamental differences, socialization ABSOLUTELY plays a role. Is there a difference (on average) between the dog whose owner took it out to meet 100 new people and 100 new places before it turned 12 weeks and the puppy who just lived its life alongside the family without socialization time specifically set aside? Maybe, maybe not. But is there a difference between the dogs who lived in a garage for the first 5 months of their life with zero human interaction and those who grew up in a social atmosphere? In my experience, that's a yes to the vast majority of cases. The bolder dogs tend to come around quicker than the softer, more skittish ones, but when the world is entirely new to you, it doesn't matter if you're innately happy-go-lucky or innately a little more reserved... at first, everything is scary.
Do I think Boo was well socialized as a puppy? No, probably not in the way that we talk about it on this board. She shied away from storm drains for the first year that we had her and was scared of the dishwasher opening and closing. Might a bolder dog have taken these little things in stride? Maybe. But even a soft dog who has been exposed to these things (discounting people and other living things to a degree) as a young dog doesn't tend to react shyly to those things that they were regularly exposed to (I put "things" and "people" in different categories, because living things are sporadic and unpredictable, unlike an inanimate object and tend to produce fear reactions for a longer period of time than things that remain constant). That said, I'm also fairly certain that Boo wasn't living alone in a crate for her first three years, because her reaction to most everyday things (wood floors, lights going on and off, the doorbell, the telephone, stream water, concrete, carpet, dog bowls, doorways, etc) were all pretty nonchalant.
That was a pretty long response to a fairly straightforward question, but I guess I just hate to jump to one side of the "nature" or "nurture" debate when there are so so many factors and I think that both play a role. Socialization doesn't have to be in the form of specified daily socialization activities. Socialization to me is just a process of observing and participating in the world so that one becomes accustomed to its happenings. And yes, every TRULY unsocialized dog that I've ever met (solid innate temperament or not) has not had the opportunity to express that friendly innate temperament to the best of its ability, as it might have had it grown up experiencing the world.
I don't think on an average walk down the street that I could tell you which dogs grew up in an average home, versus those who underwent intensive socialization activities. But yes, I don't doubt that I could pick out which dog at a shelter was raised in a home alongside people versus which grew up in the shelter with zero human interaction apart from feeding time. All this regardless of their innate temperament.
As a sidenote - I feel it imperative to mention that I'm talking exclusively about domestic dogs. I've never worked with wolfdogs, coydogs, or any other hybrid and so don't have any opinion on the interaction of socialization and genetics on the behavior of these animals, although I'd imagine it to be very different from an average dog.
I also feel it imperative to mention that "aloof," "friendly," "independent," "cautious," etc. are all good temperamental descriptions that may or may not be influenced by socialization. You're not going to turn an aloof dog into a social butterfly via socialization. That said, I don't think of an aloof dog as a scared dog. I think of it as one that really couldn't give a s*** about most new people. In my mind, there is a HUGE difference between aloof/cautious and unsocialized. And honestly, some of the most socialized dogs that I've met are also some of the least interested in interacting with EVERY SINGLE person that they meet... because after all - if you've met millions of new people, what's one more, really? Just another day really...