I always knew this day might come...

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#1
But man, do I wish I could've or would've avoided it :(

I knew when I adopted Astro that he might not be dog-social forever. He is a mix between a pit-Jack-Russell-looking terrier and a Shar Pei. And when I got him home as a young puppy, he was so scared of even the sound of dogs in the distance that he literally tucked tail and fled.

But I worked so hard to socialize him. Took him to puppy play parties, set up play dates. He learned to not just like but LOVE dogs. He loves to play with dogs so so much.

But then every now and then there'd be a negative experience. It started when a Corgi at a park herded Astro away from me. I tried to call him and the dog wouldn't let him come, and he panicked and fled, but the **** thing followed him yapping and biting at his back legs. The Corgi's owner wasn't even in sight.

Then an idiot woman let her Yorkie run up and snarl and snap at Astro not once but TWICE at PetCo. Astro didn't react the first time; the second time, he'd had enough. The woman actually was pleased and thought it would help put her dog in its place, while I was fuming that Astro had learned how to defensive.

Then Astro got stalked and harassed by an off leash dog on a trail. Dog was stiff as a board. Astro didn't react. Then he got charged by an off leash pitbull on a neighborhood walk; he didn't react.

Then he got roughed up by yet another off leash dog who wouldn't stop, and I couldn't get to him in time because the other owner saw no problem and wasn't calling her dog while it was chasing and pinning Astro (I guess since it wasn't actually mauling Astro she saw it as no problem, no matter that literally everything in the dog's body language screamed "problematic/aggressive" and everything in Astro's screamed "get me away from here"). I finally got close enough to grab Astro - I couldn't grab the other dog, it was dancing out of reach - and since he was now trapped, Astro did react.

He has reacted every time since. Every. Single. Time. That he sees a dog, at all, no matter how close or far or what the circumstance is.

Tonight my dog who used to be so sweet and so soft and friendly lunged and snarled at a Beagle puppy who was trying to say hi. Now I have that dog who makes other dogs and their owners nervous.

I am so heartbroken and exhausted from this. So much progress taking a fearful puppy and turning it into a social adult - gone. Maybe we'll get better but I suspect he will never have that same ease around dogs again, he's been burnt too many times. And now so much of his freedom has to be curtailed and micromanaged.

I know this post is so dramatic but...eugh. Just eugh. I have failed him. I'm angry at myself and angry at other owners for not giving a **** about dog body language or training or social cues or anything whatsoever. I'm angry that I haven't done my job well enough in protecting him.
 

milos_mommy

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#2
I'm sorry that you're dealing with that. It sucks.

I'm noticing how old he is in your signature, and it probably won't make you feel any better but there's a REALLY good chance this has little to do with his prior interactions and your ability to manage them and A LOT to do with his age. This is when DA pops up, even in dogs that only have positive interactions with others. Just don't think about what you could have should have done...it sounds like you worked hard on socialization. It sounds more like his personality from puppyhood and his breeds and reaching maturity, more than a product of your environment.
 
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#3
Thanks.

And you're totally right. I guess I just had such a solid year of seeing him being super soft, loose and happy around other dogs 99% of the time that it's so jarring to see the difference. I knew intellectually that a mix of his breeds might turn out to be exactly what he is now, but he was so good for so tantalizingly long that I got hopeful. Whatever the reason, genetics or experience or some combo, it's hard to accept :(
 

DJEtzel

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#4
Couple of things.

Reactivity is not aggression, and does not necessarily stem from aggression. It usually stems from lack of control in the situation, which has been made evident that neither you nor your dog has during these social interactions.

You seem to be overreacting. Every* adult dog will snarl/snap at a puppy at some point in it's life, especially dependent on the circumstances. This sounds like a normal correction/get out of my face/stop forcing interaction on me response, NOT dog aggression.

Control your dog's interactions a little better, do some LAT training and cut way back on the "socialization" and you'll probably be just fine. :)

I think the only thing you need to "accept" is that your dog is never going to get along with 100% of other dogs you meet, just like you're never going to get along with 100% of other people you meet, and that is TOTALLY ok, and does not make him dog aggressive, or a bad dog.
 

*blackrose

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#5
Couple of things.

Reactivity is not aggression, and does not necessarily stem from aggression. It usually stems from lack of control in the situation, which has been made evident that neither you nor your dog has during these social interactions.

You seem to be overreacting. Every* adult dog will snarl/snap at a puppy at some point in it's life, especially dependent on the circumstances. This sounds like a normal correction/get out of my face/stop forcing interaction on me response, NOT dog aggression.

Control your dog's interactions a little better, do some LAT training and cut way back on the "socialization" and you'll probably be just fine.

I think the only thing you need to "accept" is that your dog is never going to get along with 100% of other dogs you meet, just like you're never going to get along with 100% of other people you meet, and that is TOTALLY ok, and does not make him dog aggressive, or a bad dog.
Basically, this.

Also, he's at the age where he's more of an "adult" and less of a "puppy". When Abrams hit maturity, he started to become much more dog selective and more reactive towards dogs that pushed his buttons (aka, barked/lunged at him). While I know we need to work on his LAT mentality because he is a bit of a dick, he isn't what I would deem "dog aggressive". He's just dog selective. That works for us, because when I need him to be okay around other dogs (like at the beach) he's a [mostly] good boy. He doesn't have to be happy around every dog. I don't care that much. And I knew getting a Chessie, he'd mature to be dog selective.
 
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#6
Couple of things.

Reactivity is not aggression, and does not necessarily stem from aggression. It usually stems from lack of control in the situation, which has been made evident that neither you nor your dog has during these social interactions.

You seem to be overreacting. Every* adult dog will snarl/snap at a puppy at some point in it's life, especially dependent on the circumstances. This sounds like a normal correction/get out of my face/stop forcing interaction on me response, NOT dog aggression.

Control your dog's interactions a little better, do some LAT training and cut way back on the "socialization" and you'll probably be just fine. :)

I think the only thing you need to "accept" is that your dog is never going to get along with 100% of other dogs you meet, just like you're never going to get along with 100% of other people you meet, and that is TOTALLY ok, and does not make him dog aggressive, or a bad dog.
This advice is totally sound, I recognize that, and I thank you for talking me off the ledge :)

I guess what makes me feel so down and emotional about it: I HAVE worked super hard to control his interactions. I made mistakes, and there are things I would do differently, for sure, but I am actually known as the micromanager in my real-life dog world. But many of the times he's been rushed/gotten into an altercation, it's been me walking him on leash, or off leash under verbal control in an off-leash trail area, and a dog off leash with no recall comes charging out at me. I have no idea how to see that sort of thing coming, except to avoid the areas where it has happened - which includes basically everywhere I can walk. Most of my neighbors do not leash or control their dogs. I have been verbally firm and clear, I've gotten physically protective (standing in front of him and holding out a hand with a firm "NO, keep back,"), but it's hard to see these random events coming, you know? I get one neighbor to understand that they can't come near us, and another one pops up and just runs over with their dog without asking. Our walks are now 100% leashed, no more trail stuff, and are all about me being paranoid and scanning the horizon constantly to make sure no one is going to bumrush us. It's...not a fun way to walk, which is why I'm so emotional about this :(

I do not try to socialize him to outside dogs anymore, and haven't for quite some time. He does not and never has gone to dog parks, he does not go with me to work, no daycare. He basically only has playdates with already-known and loved dogs. But I do have to exercise him, which means (since I have no fenced backyard) leashed walks around either the neighborhood or one of the nearby trails - both of which have been the sites of these altercations.

I know we'll get through it. We have a lot of solid matwork and relaxation procedures for group classes, he knows LAT and Watch and I've done a lot of BAT, so I probably am overreacting. It's not something that's unique to me, it's very normal and I do have to recognize that. It's just emotionally taxing for me to have this as a particular problem, I guess. His resource guarding was no big thing to me even though it was much more severe than this - his total lack of biddability, no problem, it got old at times, but this, THIS is draining as heck.

My whippet better not mature to be reactive or so help me...:doh:

Basically, this.

Also, he's at the age where he's more of an "adult" and less of a "puppy". When Abrams hit maturity, he started to become much more dog selective and more reactive towards dogs that pushed his buttons (aka, barked/lunged at him). While I know we need to work on his LAT mentality because he is a bit of a dick, he isn't what I would deem "dog aggressive". He's just dog selective. That works for us, because when I need him to be okay around other dogs (like at the beach) he's a [mostly] good boy. He doesn't have to be happy around every dog. I don't care that much. And I knew getting a Chessie, he'd mature to be dog selective.
Yeah, true. And like I said, I knew getting a terrier-Shar Pei mix that he'd probably not mature to be a goofy "hey world I love all of you!" type dog.

It's hard to explain why it's worrying me so much...If he were just reactive on leash, that'd be one thing. That could easily just be frustration. If I felt confident that Astro would continue to be good at the situation you're describing (around other dogs at the beach etc.), that'd be doable.

His body language is VERY stiff, VERY upright, and VERY forward, ready-for-a-showdown-throwdown. I'm not the world's expert on canine body language but I'm around dozens of dogs every day, and if I saw a client dog walk in the door with his body language, I'd be concerned, honestly - with or without his current flailing snarling lunging reactivity. I was focused more on the reactivity last night when I did the OP because it was embarrassing, but now that I'm thinking about it more, it's really the stuff around/in between the reactivity that's more worrisome (though it's still not fun to have a dog flailing around at the end of the leash making a scene).
 

sillysally

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#7
My lab is pretty solid with other dogs, and he has snarked at obnoxious dogs before.

One thing you can do is look for a good reactive dog class. It really helped with Sally. Just breath and remember it's not the end of the world.
 

meepitsmeagan

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#8
Totally third Danielle's post.

Don't harp on things that happened in the past. Also, don't put your dog in a bubble because you fear every dog is going to screw them up. Watch your emotions when you are walking him-- they very much so head down that leash. If you are anxious about dogs you are only making his reactivity worse.

In the case you are bombarded by out of control, offleash dogs, typically telling the owner anything doesn't work. So, be proactive and "guard" your dog. Literally stand over him if you have to and shove the dogs away from his face. Body block in stores. Be mindful of your surroundings. Tons and tons of LAT.

Even if he has begun to be reactive, there are many ways it can become more manageable.
 

crazedACD

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#9
One thing you can do is look for a good reactive dog class. It really helped with Sally. Just breath and remember it's not the end of the world.
Seconded :). A class like that would probably help you with management skills and give managed dog/dog interactions for both of you to work on this all. I think the reactive dog classes teach BAT and LAT and all that stuff so you will be a step ahead, I think it couldn't hurt to try it out.
 

Doberluv

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#10
I remember my Doberman puppy...he loved all other dogs he met up until he turned around 18 months of age. Then it started.

I would continue to socialize but be careful. You have a dog that is largely made up of terriers and then there's the Shar pei....all breeds tending toward dog aggression or reactivity in the best case scenario. You're going to need to be careful and responsible to keep other dogs safe as well as your own dog safe.

My Doberman came off as very aggressive when on a leash. It was really embarrassing. I finally got him desensitized a little and he improved with his manners but not completely. When he was off leash, he was fine. He did bark and chase after a dog once in our pasture but then stopped about 20 feet from the dog and just watched. Another time, he was chasing a dog and looked really scary. I called down to him to halt, then drop and he did. I went and got him. In classes he was a perfect gentleman and not reactive toward the other dogs...completely minded his own business. Really weird how it was only on casual leash walks that weren't about "working" that he came unglued.

It is a hassle to try to work through this. But there are good books and stuff online to help. Watch this: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=454F08A439409A83C46A454F08A439409A83C46A
 

*blackrose

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#11
In classes he was a perfect gentleman and not reactive toward the other dogs...completely minded his own business. Really weird how it was only on casual leash walks that weren't about "working" that he came unglued. ]
That is exactly how Abrams is. In a "casual" environment he will react strongly to other dogs he views as a threat (although he does immediately take a liking to some dogs and is just fine). However, when we're "working" (which includes being at the beach playing fetch) he completely ignores other dogs with no issues at all.
 

DJEtzel

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#12
The great thing about reactivity is that it can often be overcome with consistency and a little time. Frag was awful between a year and 2 or so... We worked on it every. single. day. for many months before seeing a noticeable improvement, and now he can walk into any group of dogs on or off leash without a problem in the world. Just gotta keep your criteria and relax. :)
 

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