No Marking during Barn Hunt: agree or disagree?

You misunderstood my post. I think that asking for it to be permitted is silly, not that he was peeing his first time out. To my knowledge, earthdog doesn't have an equipment (bales, jumps, etc) that would need to be cleaned or replaced because of urine. In a real life type barn hunt situation, urinating would be heavily frowned upon for reasons mentioned... it wouldn't be in a real life earthdog situation.

You know, if you do really want to do the sport, it may be worth your while buying a bale of hay or straw (one is usually cheaper than the other, but it varies - either way, you can probably get something for $5 or so) and try teaching him at home not to mark on it.

Gusto isn't a HUGE marker anyway, but I was very, very careful watching him at first when he was in the barn, because he wouldn't have been allowed loose if he did it. I think it took two verbal corrections as he started lifting his leg, and that was it. He pretty quickly processed that it was a no-go, and I never saw him try again, even on bales outside the barn.

Just a thought, since I know you said you hadn't really bothered trying to train him out of it. If you think he'd like the sport and you want to do it, it would be a pretty cheap attempt at solving the issue.

Oops, sorry lol. I was a little snappy last night. I thought you were talking about me specifically. Haha.

It's fine, I'm terrible at wording everything ever, haha.

Not only that, but horses and even other animals (Sans cows ... who will eat anything lol) won't eat hay that has been peed on. Heck, I have seen horses refuse to eat hay that has been stored in a barn where they likely has a bald rat/mouse infestation, because it smells like pee :/. If they are using borrowed hay it's only polite to have a rule like that, imagine if they let everyone with a marking male urinate on the hay, that hay would be ruined at the end of the day.

I also agree that marking is a behavioral issue not a fact that males just can't help it. Bear competed in many earth dog trials and a couple of barn hunts and he never marked, ever. He was top interested in finding that rat

FYI straw would probably be cheaper than hay, heck you might even check on those decorative straw they use for displays and see of they are cheaper. Where you are you might be able to find straw, here its harder to find because no one beds stalls with straw here (it's not allowed at most stables or race tracks because of the fire danger due to the hotter climate.

They've had a lot less marking now that they make you pay for a new bale of hay. :rofl1:

The instructor was getting tired of having to throw out hay and buy more constantly.

I was shocked when I went to pick up a couple of bales of straw for a friend to put down over some muddy spots in her yard, and it was $2/bale MORE than hay. They said it fluctuates by year which is more expensive. Not many people here bed on straw, but it is still available in all the feed stores, because pretty much everyone still uses it for foaling.

Happy to report that Sako didn't try to lift his leg once during the entire 3hr. introduction to barn hunt! Out of 10 dogs there was only one that did, not too bad.

I always found marking annoying and discouraged it anyway lol. Once I started doing trials and barn hunts, I am glad I did.

I have never been one to believe that dogs don't generalize, I think they can learn where they can and where they can't mark. But after Buddy I don't think I will have any more male anyway

Must be a regional thing, because straw has always been cheaper here (Indiana), but were have a ton of non-equine livestock that are bedded with straw around here too.

Same here.

My store gets straw sparingly and it is usually higher than the bales of field hay.

You could also, if you have farms, stables or anything like that in your area you could check with them and see if they have any bales that are old or have gone bad. They might be willing to sell them to you for cheap or, better get give them to you.

I really have no opinion either way, but I guess I always kind of assumed that bales were designated specifically for the event. Because with all those dogs going in and out, it seems inevitable that someone is going to pee on them.

Bales are definitely designated for the event and often times thrown out after being used for trials. I can't imagine a place saving or wanting to save nasty straw bales (and hay is mostly never used and certainly wouldn't be fed to anything after an event). Plus, they're constantly being rearranged and pieces are shredded and they don't stay whole and intact for long.

I think it's a great rule and I would never want them to change it. It also doesn't only effect boy dogs, many girls are tempted to mark as well but it is SUPER trainable and dogs are expected not to pee in any other sport.

The ring is a tiny enclosed space where 300 runs are going to take place. Can you imagine the amount of pee there would be and how nasty that straw would be by the end of the day?!?? And by the 300th dog, the dog can't even focus on finding a rat because all it would be able to smell is ****.

No, as a person who helps with barn hunt classes and trials has to touch, rearrange and move straw i do not think it is acceptable for a dog to ever pee on it. And it is super unfair for every dog after.

Admittedly I don't know much about barn hunt, so I might be totally off base with this.

But to me, barn hunt seems to be a lot more primal/instinctual and less handler oriented than other sports.
If that's the case, I wonder if it'd be more difficult to train the marking behaviour out opposed to a sport where the dog maintains handler focus and receives more structured direction?

Again, I have really no idea how a sanctioned barn hunt event works though, so I apologize if I am way wrong.

Barn hunt is instinct based. But nose work is too to an extent. And like I said in nose work trials if a dog marks on search then all the other dogs have to work around it. It can be quite brutal that way.

Some dogs are very sensitive to urine. At that last agility trial Mia would not go on the grass at the main potty spot people were using. She refused because of the pee smell.

I do think it's a good rule. Obviously some dogs will still pee but hopefully people make an attempt to not let their dog pee and thus less dogs pee in the ring.

And yes the workers do have to touch the bales and move them every 10 searches or so (I believe it's 10 where you have to move the rats...)

Well, just IMO, I think it'd be harder at least for me to train out of. I have no problem having him not mark in other places and other sports, as I said, he's more focused on the task and me, but with an environment like barn hunt where you are in a small space where TONS of other dogs have been in an outdoor environment ... I know Jackson. It wouldn't matter even if I practiced with a bale of hay at our house. He likely would have no desire to leg lift on a brand new pile of hay because no other dogs would've been on it/peed on it. So that would kind of defeat the purpose of training it LOL... and I honestly don't think he would generalize too much... a bale of hay at home is way less exciting than a bale of hay at a barn hunt trial. So even if I got him not to mark at hay elsewhere, I still imagine he would do it at a trial while off leash.

But again, I am honestly not that worried, we're just going to skip this particular sport. Mostly just a thread for opinions! I definitely see the point in not allowing it moreso now.

At the one barn hunt practice, I did bring him in with a leash just to see and be able to control him more.... and I think it maybe had more to do with being uninterested in the rat than necessarily marking itself. He def seemed more worried about finding a place to mark rather than sniffing out the rat. The thing is, in general, he's not a CRAZY marker or anything. At home he still squats to pee lol.

In the backyard, he's CRAZY obsessed with bunnies/squirrels/etc. And will stare at a spot for HOURS. But I think that's because he knows he actually has a chance lOL. With the barn hunt, once he realized it was in a tube, he was like ehhh.

Barn hunt is a popular event at JRT trials. I can't say marking has been a big issue for most dogs. If the dog is into the game they should be just as focused on finding the rat as they are on when playing agility.

Dekka is a big marker for a girl. But as long as she is working we are good (she is a nightmare at agility classes because as soon as she isn't working she is looking for things to claim)

I don't compete in barn hunt, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I wouldn't want dogs peeing during any kind of ring-event where the next dog is going to be working in the exact same space. It's distracting and kind of gross. In terms of life irritations though, it's pretty low. :] I don't think it's that hard to teach a dog not to go while they're working, but it's also not a good idea to compete with a dog that CAN'T work over another dog's urine, so I think that door swings both ways.