"Champion Lines"

Inspired by the other thread, what do you consider Champion Lines? 2 Ch's in a 5 gen pedigree? 10?

"Champion Lines" to me is at a minimum multiple champions in a 3-4 generation pedigree.

I've noticed lots of BYBs sell a dog as "champion lines" when there is one in a 5+ gen pedigree.

Since I'm not into showing and don't give "Champion lines" much credence, take my opinion with a grain of salt, LOL

But IMO, "Champion lines" and the right to claim such, would be at least one PARENT being a documented Ch as well as the parent's having very close ties to documented champions (such as their parents, grandparents, etc)

Checking a pedigree and finding great great great great grandparents who were champions only tells me that THOSE owners tested and proved their dogs for breeding and nobody has done anything since, LOL

I agree with Coop.

Champion lines means more than one dog in the lines was a champion and at least one of the parent, preferably both, was a champion.

I'd really prefer to see dogs with titles in more than just one thing (like confo and herding or conformation and schutzhund or confo and obedience, or even a dog in confo that does therapy work, etc.)

I don't think an exact definition exists. Venus' parents weren't champions. Her sire, Max, would have finished if the people who had him had kept showing him. He was doing well when they quit. At any rate, her sire's brother was the number 1 borzoi in the US for a couple of years, won the BCOA national in 2009, and had multiple breed wins at Westminster and Eukanuba. He's currently spending time in Japan, where is now the number 1 borzoi there and won the largest dog show in Japan. He's breaking all kinds of records there. His brothers and sisters have also done well--multiple champions, and a couple of them have been ranked nationally as well.

V's grandsire was also the number 1 borzoi in the US one year, and she has other champions on both sides of her pedigree. I'd say she's from "champion lines," not that it matters to me. I'd happily trade the famous relatives for more focus on fake prey on the field.

Champion lines usually indicates to me it's a BYB that doesn't know what they're talking about. Most the time the champs are listed several gens back and that doesn't really matter.

Our standard poodles pedigree had champions back more that six generations, only the champs were bred, including one who was a world champion. To me, that's champion bloodlines. My border collie, on the other hand, has a pedigree of 80% working champions. Other than his parents and 3 of the grandparents, all were trialed in the UK, the others were Can-Am champions. BC were not shown in conformation in this country at that time, but I working lines is what I was interested in. This is a champion bloodline.

BYB and puppy mills will use dogs to breed who have not been championed and whose parents have not been championed, often grandparents who have not been championed. So, you are getting puppies who come from a champion three or four or five generations back. Technically, I guess they come from champion lines, but it's a stretch. It's up to the buyer to ask to see the pedigree and figure out that neither of the parents were championed, and their parents weren't championed.