Concerned about Dekka

I posted a bit on the FB forum but will post here too.

Dekka seems perfectly fine in every other way. She is physically in great shape. She seems as smart and as responsive as ever (we are back in agility classes and she is doing amazing, fast and learning new handling things like a champ)

However she is having anxiety attacks. The vet has mentioned dementia but she has none of the other symptoms. She does not get lost, she does not startle.. But randomly, we can find no trigger, she has panic attacks. Only at home so far, she does not have them at work or when out and about. Though to be fair we do spend most of our time at home, so it could be a timing thing.

She starts to shake and pant, then she will pace. If Schen gets in her way she will attack him with no warning. She holds her ears sideways and back, her eyes get all panicky and round. She wants to hide in the bedroom, but only if I will come with her. She will keep jumping at the bedroom door, but unless I go in with her she won't stay. If I go into the bedroom and we lay down she gets much better. Sometimes I crate her just to keep Schen safe but she just curls up and shakes

We have tried numerous things including DAP and low doses of tramadol. She is currently on Clomicalm (clomipramine)

Has anyone dealt with this before? If so how was the outcome and what did you try?

Hey Dekka,

That's so scary. For you and her!

The second I started ready that, I thought dementia myself.

I hesitate to share our experience because it really could be any number of things and just because things went south for us doesn't mean Dekka has the same issue. You'll have to keep in mind that Boo had been having seizures for years which may or may not have contributed to all this . I'm not a vet!

Our old schipperke acted in the way youre describing for the year or so before her suspected stroke. She also did not have any other symptoms other than what you're describing, and the vet also mentioned dementia. With time, the space between each episode shortened, and she started having more seizures (which she had had for years). Vet then thought she might have been experiencing head pain. We got phenobarb and pain meds for her. By that time she was very confused and she died soon after.

Is it possible she's in any pain? Maybe from the increased exercise? Arthritic pain or what have you? You'd think the tramadol would help....but maybe an anti-inflammatory might be a good idea.

I used to work at a vet, but I was admin and i can't remember what was done for suspected dementia.

Good luck!

Thank you!

She has had one seizure like episode but that was years ago (scared me to bits!)

I don't think its related to activity. Though we are back into agility she spent the summer running beside my bike. She really is in fantastic shape. (I got the arm for the bike for Schen but she showed me she really was up to running 4k)

This new vet I have I really like. She is down with any sort of test etc and is very cautious about prescribing drugs. IYE is there any test or anything we could be looking at? I do hesitate to chalk it up to dementia due to no other symptoms being present.

I have also wondered if there is some noise in my apt that only she can hear that sets her off. She has thunder/firework phobias.

Could she just be in pain? Panting and shivering along with irritability can also be signs that she is hurting at those times...

She shows no signs of pain. And the Tramadol should have made her better (it made no difference) as it is a pain killer.

It looks like fear. It's her same reaction to when she hears close thunder. Thunder at a distance doesn't produce quite this level of fear.

Seizure activity was my first thought.

This sounds extremely similar to Milo's episodes...sometimes (maybe always?) triggered by stress, sometimes there was no visible trigger. It got worse if he was tired.

When he was younger I just looked for warning signs and removed him to a quiet, dark room...I could usually get about 10-30 seconds to do so. I got bit a handful of times. Stiff legs, wall-eye, walking funny/sideways, hyper focusing on seemingly nothing/his shadow/a spot on the floor. Afterwards he'd usually sleep a while.

Prozac helped a lot, I think he somewhat outgrew it (but this started around 8 months and lasted til 7 years). No other health problems we could find. Actually, it did start when he had Lyme's. I have no idea if they were related.

How old is Dekka? Have you checked her liver enzymes? You nearly explained to a tee what Abbey's behavior was before her treatment started. We suspected dementia and maybe kidney issues but instead it was her liver starting to fail and the result was hepatic encephalopathy.

She will be 11 in Jan. She has had bloodwork. Though we are doing more soon. I will ask about that.

I had wondered if I had had it figured out. The GO train is close to us. I can't hear the train but I was wondering if she could. But her fear episodes don't match up to the times.

Always near the top of my list with these symptoms is episodes of neck or back pain. A disc can intermittently pinch the spinal nerve roots causing signs that appear random and then resolve.

Tramadol isn't that great of a pain reliever by itself, and there's huge variation in individual dogs' response to it. If you can swing it, I would have her evaluated by a good rehab vet. If that's not in the budget, I would personally do a trial with something like an NSAID + gabapentin or just gabapentin by itself if you don't like NSAIDs.

Also, senior dogs do sometimes develop profound anxiety disorders they've never had before. It may be one manifestation of dementia, without other symptoms. Short of doing a therapeutic trial with something like fluoxetine or clomipramine (which is hard to come by these days) it's hard to rule that in or out though.

Seizure possibly? Summer gets panicky right before she has one. And Summers seizures are so minor you can't even notice them beyond a bit of confusion and trembling.

She runs agility like a mad thing though, would she do that with pain?

She is on clomipramine (Clomicalm) but has only been on it about a week.

Laur> Any suggestions on how to determine if it is a seizure?

With Summer we luckily got her in the vet during an episode of shaking/confusion.

Adrenaline and history of reinforcement can cause a dog to continue to work through pain. Especially if the specific activities she's doing aren't aggravating it.

I second the suggestion to find a a rehb vet. And try a better pain med -- keeping in mind Gaba can't be used as a rescue drug. It takes time to build up and be effective.

So I don't think its a seizure. She started panting and shaking shortly after we got up this morning. I had time so I humoured her by going back to bed. She stopped panting and shaking and happily chilled out. (have adorable pic, will post later) I don't think that would go away just by moving locations?

It could be pain, but I have seen my dog in pain before. Serious pain (sadly). She leaps around in general these days, not just in agility. She (and remember she is just a hair over 11 inches tall) can still jump onto the counter from the floor to peruse the contents of said counter and stove. However I will bring it up to my vet just in case.

Update:

The drugs seem to be working. She is more mellow (we also got a new couch.. maybe she just really wanted a new couch lol) and seem less stressy. There is a marked reduction in shaking, panting and drooling.

Hooray! I hope things continue to improve!