Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dogs - General Dog Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:05 PM
milos_mommy's Avatar
milos_mommy milos_mommy is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,555
Default Mixed breed VS purebred health

Spin-off of the GSD thread:

Regarding genetic issues, are there any concrete reasons to believe purebred dogs or mixed breed dogs are less predisposed to them? I'm talking specifically about unhealth tested dogs, from unknown backgrounds.

What about other issues, like issues that may stem from physical conformation? Or environmental factors? Does breed, or rather purebred/mixed breed, have an influence on how a dog develops environment influenced disorders?

Here is what I was going to put into the other thread, before I decided we needed a new one:

"I'm fairly certain that mixed breeds are less predisposed to genetic illnesses...it's not that one parent has or carries a disorder, so it's likely for offspring to have it, and therefore opens up a large pool of genetic disorders for mixes. Usually (at least for many disorders) BOTH parents need to be a carrier of the disorder. So if you're breeding two dogs who's genetic issues don't generally overlap, you have a better chance of the dog not developing that specific issue. It's the same in people - if two people of an ethnic group known for carrying a specific gene for a disease, for example, Tay Sachs, reproduce, the child has a higher chance of being unhealthy. If someone of that ethnic group reproduces with someone of another ethnic group with a DIFFERENT prevalent disorder (sickle cell anemia), the child has a much less chance, or no chance at all, of having those disorders. It's not that they're now predisposed to both disorders."

But, as I mentioned in the other thread, I don't know THAT much about genetic disorders, and I'm not entirely sure that's accurate. There are obviously way too many factors to state "mixed breeds are healthier" or "purebred dogs are healthier", but is it safe to say that generally (discounting two breeds who are often carriers of the same disorder) that genetic issues are less common in mixes than untested purebreds?
__________________
"My favorite color is green, green like newly cut grass. When it comes to green with envy, though, you can stick it up your @ss!" ~ Grammy



http://www.adorablebeasts.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:08 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,036
Default

Without health testing? It's a crapshoot either way.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:19 PM
sassafras's Avatar
sassafras sassafras is offline
such sights to show you
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,510
Default

Well IMO all dogs may be predisposed to certain health problems based on their genetics. But with purebreds, you generally have a better idea what problems you might be in for (particularly for poorly bred dogs).

It doesn't mean mixed breed dogs don't have genetic predispositions to diseases or are healthier overall, it's just that your radar may not be up as much for specific problems as much as with a purebred. Maybe people perceive that as meaning that mixed breeds are healthier?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:24 PM
Beanie's Avatar
Beanie Beanie is online now
Clicker Cult Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 13,174
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
Without health testing? It's a crapshoot either way.
Agreed.

What you're talking about as far as both parents being carriers is any disease that follows the Mendelian pattern - there are tons of genetic disorders that do not follow that pattern and, even among those often believed to follow the pattern, still cases where oddities pop up.

Even WITH health testing, you still have oddities pop up.

Genetics. Not that simple.
__________________


Auggie - The Flash RN NAJ MXP MJP CGC
Payton - Sharp Dressed Man NA NAJ CGC
Pepper - Chocolate Swizz-l-icious
& the pest, Georgie - Peach Pudding N Pie NA OAJ
The Sheltiechick Blog
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:30 PM
milos_mommy's Avatar
milos_mommy milos_mommy is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
Agreed.

What you're talking about as far as both parents being carriers is any disease that follows the Mendelian pattern - there are tons of genetic disorders that do not follow that pattern and, even among those often believed to follow the pattern, still cases where oddities pop up.

Even WITH health testing, you still have oddities pop up.

Genetics. Not that simple.
Right - but do mixed breeds have a higher chance of developing a genetic or non-genetic disorder that doesn't follow that pattern?
And if they don't, wouldn't the probability of a mixed breed being "healthy" go up, just because you're ruling out a plethora of issues? There's still a high chance they'll have a different type of disorder, without health testing, but wouldn't the probability be lowered?
__________________
"My favorite color is green, green like newly cut grass. When it comes to green with envy, though, you can stick it up your @ss!" ~ Grammy



http://www.adorablebeasts.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:58 PM
Beanie's Avatar
Beanie Beanie is online now
Clicker Cult Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 13,174
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by milos_mommy View Post
Right - but do mixed breeds have a higher chance of developing a genetic or non-genetic disorder that doesn't follow that pattern?
And if they don't, wouldn't the probability of a mixed breed being "healthy" go up, just because you're ruling out a plethora of issues? There's still a high chance they'll have a different type of disorder, without health testing, but wouldn't the probability be lowered?
No, a mixed breed is not more at risk of developing any disorder, Mendelian or not. And no, the fact that they are not MORE at risk of developing a disorder does not thereby make them LESS at risk. Your risk is basically the same - a dog of unknown health history, carrying who knows what, prone to throwing who knows what, potentially going to produce a dog who might end up with who knows what genetic mutations. If the dog is a mix or our definition of a "purebreed" it doesn't really matter.


Can you explain how you think a mixed breed rules out a plethora of issues?
__________________


Auggie - The Flash RN NAJ MXP MJP CGC
Payton - Sharp Dressed Man NA NAJ CGC
Pepper - Chocolate Swizz-l-icious
& the pest, Georgie - Peach Pudding N Pie NA OAJ
The Sheltiechick Blog
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-13-2013, 02:28 PM
Romy's Avatar
Romy Romy is offline
Taxiderpy
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 9,930
Default

A lot of health problems common to non health tested stock are inherited the same way across breed lines.

Hip dysplasia is not uncommon in labs, GSDs, and a plethora of other breeds. It's much MORE common in lines that aren't health tested and selected against that defect.

So when you start mixing non health tested individuals of breeds that share the same disorder, you're still going to get affected puppies.

Out of all the dogs I know, the majority are purebreds. Out of all the dogs I know that have died of cancer, 3 were purebreds and 11 were mixes. In my own personal experience that is a hugely disproportionate number. I have no idea of that's representative of anything bigger, but I don't believe mixes are inherently healthier by virtue of being a mix.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-13-2013, 03:50 PM
milos_mommy's Avatar
milos_mommy milos_mommy is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
Can you explain how you think a mixed breed rules out a plethora of issues?
I didn't mean rule out - but for at least some disorders, they're going to be very reduced. One example might be Basset Hounds and Thromopathia. A basset hound mixed with any other breed would not (barring any unusual or unheard of anomaly) have thromopathia, even if the basset parent was a carrier.

There are lots of other diseases like that. Many of them might be found in multiple breeds, so that's something to consider (a dobe X GSD wouldn't be less likely to have Von Willebrand than a purebred dobe or GSD...but a dobe X husky would be less likely to have it).
__________________
"My favorite color is green, green like newly cut grass. When it comes to green with envy, though, you can stick it up your @ss!" ~ Grammy



http://www.adorablebeasts.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:26 PM
milos_mommy's Avatar
milos_mommy milos_mommy is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
Without health testing? It's a crapshoot either way.
Yes, true, but would you argue there is the same probability of the mixed breed dog having a genetic issue as there is the purebred?

Lets say you have two groups of dogs of two different breeds. They aren't predisposed to any of the same genetic issues...let's say the first group carries for X disorder, and the second group carries for Y disorder.

Say there are 50 dogs of each breed in each group.
Say 30 of each breed is carrier for their given disorder (X in group 1, Y in group 2).
Say 5 of each breed is a carrier for the other disorder.

If you breed the dogs in group 1 together, there is a much, much higher chance that they will have X disorder. If you're mixing them, there isn't an equal chance the dog will have X OR Y disorder, or MORE of a chance for them to have a genetic disease. It's much less of a chance.

Or is there something wrong with my highly scientific evaluation?

Aside from the fact it doesn't consider that most genetic disorders are prevalent in a number of popular breeds.
__________________
"My favorite color is green, green like newly cut grass. When it comes to green with envy, though, you can stick it up your @ss!" ~ Grammy



http://www.adorablebeasts.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:33 PM
sassafras's Avatar
sassafras sassafras is offline
such sights to show you
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,510
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by milos_mommy View Post
Aside from the fact it doesn't consider that most genetic disorders are prevalent in a number of popular breeds.
Also, it's likely that few genetically-predisposed disorders have a simple, one-gene pattern of inheritance.

The famous example of one that IS really simple is the LUA dalmatians - one pointer in the mix and subsequent careful breeding affected the incidence of that disorder tremendously in those lines.

But most diseases with a genetic component are probably not only controlled by multiple genes, but the expression of those genes is probably affected by environmental factors.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:20 AM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site